permaculture

[Robyn Williamson <robinet@aapt.net.au>]

Hi Paul

I was beginning to think that either nobody had noticed or people 
didn't find Larry Hardiman's quotation quite as hilarious as I did.  It 
was meant in the context of a previous post by J Kolenovsky about 
merriment and mirth being needed, for people to lighten up a bit and 
for us to avoid getting into personal attack mode.  Democracy as we 
know it on the ground at grass roots level is a far cry from the 
theory, n'est-ce pas?  What I mean is that officially we all have 
rights but it's not so in practice, in my opinion.

On Sunday, February 25, 2007, at 01:05 am, 
permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org/ Paul Cereghino wrote:

> Robyn, nothing personal, I'm talking as much to myself as anyone, the
> "politics = many bloodsucking parasites" quip on the tail of recent 
> list
> dialog set me to thinking...

No offense taken Paul, many thanks indeed for your respectful and 
deeply considered response.

> How easy it is to have contempt for politics -- as if our failure to
> effectively manage political processes has no meaning.  Is a
> tractionless relationship to politics any better of a design then
> failing to orient to the sun?

No it isn't but the more I learn about existing political relationships 
the less I like it.

> Our communities are disorganized, we lack the skills or experience in
> mass self governance, we flounder in our affinity groups and our
> individualism, month to month drifting on our leaky arks.

I don't know what it's like where you are but in this country *they* 
don't like individuals, *they* prefer clones and robots running around 
the place doing the same thing every day being easily kept in control 
by fear, idling to work and home again in pollution machines on clogged 
roads burning up fuel for which *they* get bulk taxes and fight wars 
over.  Aside from the environmental considerations, I strongly object 
to my taxes paying for legalised murder.  Whatever happened to 'thou 
shalt not kill"?  I didn't vote for little king johnnie but I got him 
anyway and have to live with the consequences.  So does David Hicks.

> We will need
> the land to live, but with failed politics we cannot defend the land
> from the behaviors of our own people.  The political system is the
> landscape context, part of the assessment, part of the design.  The
> permaculture I learned does not ignore the dominant predator or the
> behavioral patterns of the prime ecosystem architect.  We will learn 
> the
> sources, flows and sinks of political power, if we want to achieve
> anything enduring.

Of course, but I see it as one of "the invisibles" in permaculture 
design and as such it is "invisible" for all intents and purposes in a 
concept plan.

> Do we really believe a little climatic-oil chaos will change much? Do 
> we
> think a little hunger will kick-start some kind of revolution?  If we
> don't learn to engage human politics to serve the land, what 
> opportunity
> will chaos offer us?  In the places where chaos has already taken hold,
> are politics any more progressive or restorative?

No/nothing to all the above.

> Do you think that
> those who grasp at power are unintelligent?

Yes, either that or they're just megalomaniacs.  I think true leaders 
emerge at the behest of those who would follow.  The true leaders I am 
referring to didn't want people following them around in the first 
place, they didn't set out to lead but they do it when it's for the 
greater good and because their followers have enough faith in them to 
insist that they lead the way.  Not because they've organised 
gerrymanders, spun gross porkies or whatever to get/keep themselves in 
power.

>   I would suggest that beyond
> politics, there is no other game in town.  If our common values and
> processes (our politics) are clouded and confused, our people will turn
> to our familiar destructive patterns like moths to a flame.  I propose
> that the political landscape in front of us in not ephemeral or
> unstable, but is as old as the hills.

And therein lies the real problem, n'est-ce pas?  It hasn't evolved 
much since then in my view.  The only difference I can "see" between 
capitalism and communism for example is that the communists let you 
know up front what they are doing to you from the rear.

>   Those who manipulate failed
> politics for personal greed will not be surprised by oil depletion and
> release their grip on the political system that defines our economic
> structures.  Economies are reclaimed by communities who master their 
> own
> politics.  The whole spectrum of existing political relationships are
> important to learn and understand, not as something to ridicule or
> separate from,

I beg to differ on that last point and reckon your average politician 
these days is fair game, when they stop telling people lies, I'll stop 
telling the truth about them.  Until such time as the nation state does 
not exist, probably not in my lifetime, they can wear it like we have 
to wear them whether we like it or not.

> but as something we are part of, that flows from our
> selves, and that must be a critical element of our designs.  If we 
> don't
> want to engage politics, we can always retreat to our property
> boundaries, but I would suggest that herb spirals are just training
> wheels for the real design challenge.

I agree with you entirely Paul.  My post was just a joke, just like 
politics is today.  Permaculture design at least is eclectic in nature, 
polity does not appear to learn from past mistakes.

Here are a couple more insights for us to ponder and I would be pleased 
once again to hear your enlightened thoughts if you are so inspired by 
either or both:

"The fundamental cause of suffering is ignorance ...  It is not 
difficult to forgive destruction in the past, which resulted from 
ignorance.  Today however we have access to more information and it is 
essential that we re-examine ethically what we have inherited, what we 
are responsible for and what we will pass on to coming generations."
 *-His Holiness the Dalai Lama-*

"I think we risk becoming the best informed society that has ever died 
of ignorance."
*-Reuben Blades-*

Luv & peas,
Robyn

Robyn Williamson wrote:

> On Friday, February 23, 2007, at 03:20 pm, 
> permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org/J Kolenovsky wrote:
>
> > Once in a while a little deviation from
> > the electic headiness brings refreshment and merriment to the soul.
> > Based on whats coming down the pike, we all need some of that.
>
> I agree wholeheartedly but I gotta say that I came close to 
> unsubscribing myself after that last episode.  Yes the offending 
> messages are only a scroll click or a delete button away but it can be 
> ho-hum in the extreme for those of us elsewhere on the planet when the 
> divisive nature of politics* causes people's blood to boil over.
>
> Robyn
>
> * The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly' meaning 'many' 
> and the word 'tics' meaning 'blood-sucking parasites'.
> ~ Larry Hardiman