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  • From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
  • To: Phil Hacker <iphilgood@gmail.com>, Permaculture ibiblio <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>, openpermaculture <permaculture@openpermaculture.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] teaching a permaculture design course
  • Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:11:37 -0400

Hi Phil,
Our advanced course in on its last day and we'll have a two day break before the Teacher Training begins. I am going to take the liberty of forwarding this discussion to the Pc listserv for other feedback. (Y'all can reply to Phil at <iphilgood@gmail.com>) Further comment below:

Phil Hacker wrote:
Keith,

I appreciate you taking the time to respond with such a thorough and honest answer. And I agree that someone without (extensive) experience should not be teaching courses. It does seem difficult though (at least from the sources that I have looked through) to spend time with an experienced teacher without having to pay.
Hmmm. Most of the teachers I know are happy to let PDC grads participate in the course. They are generally expected to pay for food during the time they are there (often for only part of the course) and sometimes other facilities fees, but usually not for the PDC itself. Some are willing and able to pay for a second time though, in my experience, usually for less. In our case we usually provide an outline of the subject which they wish to focus upon and they supplement with info from personal sources and research. We like to see their outline and perhaps allow them an occasion to present to us independent of the formal class time in order to offer feedback.
Worktrades and apprenticeships (real apprenticeships where one offers labor to an expert in exchange for knowledge and training) are hard to find.
In most of the courses we teach, in various venues around the country, the host (e.g. the Farm in TN, Earthaven in NC, Light Morning in VA., Lazy Black Bear in IN, etc) is often willing to provide work-exchange opportunities usually before and/or after, but sometimes during, the course (cooking, gardening, or other support for the course, sometimes building or other services). Who, and how many, have you been asking (if that is not indiscreet)?
I realize many people taking courses are coming out of other professions and are financially well-to-do.
Occasionally we have students whose training is paid for by their employers.
I also realize that permaculture designers need to make a living.
I have met NO teachers who rely on teaching for their sole income. Designing and consulting (and many other skills) definitely are needed by all the folks I know to supplement teaching income.
But it would be nice to see more opportunities around for people who actually want to gain experience and knowledge rather than just a certificate, especially if they are unable to part with such a large sum of money.
I suspect you haven't asked enough, or the right people. I, too, am curious why you have apparently met dead ends in your inquiries. Also, (and this has been addressed exhaustively on many discussion listservs) I have always thought the PDC to be a bargain for the money being asked (a range usually from $600-$1200) considering the power and potential in the training.
I may have more questions as things develop further. I appreciate your willingness to answer them.

Just to ease your mind, the original teacher would have been a person who was certified in the late 80's. He has since been working towards implementing the permaculture design that was created by a very experienced PC consultant. In other words, he has been practicing permaculture for over 10 years. So I was curious if he was qualified to certify people, assuming all other aspects of the curriculum are fulfilled by those being certified.
Permaculture practice does not necessarily make one a good teacher. Teaching practice makes good teachers. He may, in fact, be very qualified but, until I experienced that, would not expect it as a matter of course.
I am assuming by your answer that he would be allowed to certify others (I do believe that the outline of his course must be approved by the Permaculture Institute in Australia, correct me if I am wrong).
Mollison, I think, DOES require course approval by his agency in order to be a "qualified" teacher, but most places don't apply such rigorous guidelines. If we went only by his requirements, there would only be about 50-75 teachers in the world. Happily, though, there are many excellent teachers who haven't applied to Bill for teacher certification approval who continue to offer quality and complete training.

I hope this answers most of your questions. I imagine that the list will have further commentary to offer.
Keith
On 8/21/06, *Keith Johnson* <keithdj@mindspring.com <mailto:keithdj@mindspring.com>> wrote:

Phil,
I suspect you thought you were writing to Scott Pittman who is in
New Mexico. You have reached the Permaculture Activist, instead.
I can, however, address your question.

While a Teacher Training course is highly recommended it is not
absolutely required. What we do recommend, though, is that you
find an experienced teacher who is willing to work with you and
give you a chance to practice. We do this regularly with those
students who express a desire to teach. Many who wish to teach
choose to take the course again with other teachers (hardly anyone
teaches alone - those who try to do so usually find themselves
exhausted by the experience - and that goes for those who have
already taught for some time). Some teachers will allow you to
review the course for free or a reduced cost. Multiple exposures
to the Design Course is VERY valuable.

I find the thought of a newly certified student teaching a course
alone disturbing. I wouldn't recommend it. Work with your peers
and those you already have a relationship with. They can help you
be certain to address ALL the elements of the standard curriculum.
If you don't cover ALL the curriculum, you should not be permitted
to certify ANYONE.

Please write back if you have further questions. I can help you
link with teachers in your region.

Coincidentally, I am in Basalt Colorado, in the midst of an
Advanced Pc Training followed by a Teacher Training Course. It is
not too late to enroll.

*August 28-Sept 1 Permaculture Teacher Training *at Central Rocky
Mountain Permaculture Institute, PO Box 631 | Basalt, Colorado
81621 USA Phone/Fax: (970) 927-4158 | email: jerome@crmpi.org
<mailto:jerome@crmpi.org> **

The Permaculture movement needs more teachers. This is a great
opportunity to work with experienced teachers, develop and
practice your teaching skills.
$475 (includes $100 advance non-ref. dep.)
Instructors: Peter Bane, Andrew Goodheart Brown, and guests

Keith Johnson

Phil Hacker wrote:
Hello Scott. I am wondering if there is any reason that a person
who has completed a permaculture design course and obtained a
certificate would not be allowed to teach a course and certify
others. I have asked a reputable consultant and a well-known
education center, and each gave me opposite answers. Is a
Teacher's Training course necessary? If you are not sure, it
would be great if you could direct me to an authoritative source
if there is one. Thanks so much.

--Phil

--
Keith Johnson
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 5516
Bloomington, IN 47408
(812) 335-0383
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting





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