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  • From: mitshell <mitshell@netvision.net.il>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10
  • Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 20:47:20 +0200

thanx for all the comments to the list regarding the rainwater costs
Mitch Schertz
Zichron Yaakov
Israel
----- Original Message ----- From: <permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 6:00 PM
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10


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Today's Topics:

1. rainwater collection (Charles de Matas)
2. Re: sheet mulch beds for CSA production? (Chris Jackson)
3. Centre for Biodiversity and utilisation and Development
(CBUD) (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
4. Re: sheet mulch beds for CSA production? (kevin s)
5. Re: rainwater collection (Forest Garden)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:10:21 +0000
From: "Charles de Matas" <cdematas@hotmail.com>
Subject: [permaculture] rainwater collection
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <BAY19-F2B5B1EE693EB3C037337CC7CB0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

<<The bottom line is that such an approach will takesome 5 years for me to
recoup my costs. which strikes me as quite a long time

Any thoughts from anybody out there who faced similar dillemmas>>

What about the cost of connection to the public water supply? Have you
considered that?
I live on the caribbean island of Trinidad. I built a very small house last
year. We have lots of rain during the rainly season but the dry season
lasts about 4 months. I reckon I can collect about 40 cu m. from my roof.
For me to connect to the public water supply would cost a lot, since I
would have to run pipes for several hundred metres. Besides the public
water supply here is often unreliable during the dry season, when it's
needed most, and most people still have water tanks in the backyards. It
would be much cheaper for me to collect rainwater. I won't need much water.
I will use a humanure composting system instead of a flush toilet and use
greywater to water plants.

Charles.
Trinidad.

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:30:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Jackson <sidgeydog@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] sheet mulch beds for CSA production?
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20060405183012.40723.qmail@web36215.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Kevin,
I found this website when I was researching a similar
question:
http://netptc.net/flowermanoat/wSAgHTM/Pages/index.htm
Chris

--- kevin s <k.skvorak@verizon.net> wrote:

so,

what is the largest area of sheet mulch beds that
folks have going?

we are going to put in several thousand feet, and
try to grow some
vegetables for our new CSA in dutchess co NY.

i haven't heard of anyone else going that way, maybe
there is?
please feel free to advise if so...

to start we have:

an adequate supply of somewhat composted (fresh
'ish') horse manure
that is pretty much equal parts manure and wood
shavings. lot's of
red worms in there. looks ok. i wish it was older

plenty of fresh bedding straw from another horse
farm. (very
little manure in it, they treat their horses well)

also quite a lot of fairly well rotted hay that laid
out in a field all year

several thousand feet of brown paper in rolls from a
wood fired
matzo place in the city

and, not nearly enough finished compost

the beds are going in following contour on a 5 to 10
percent slope,
on land that hasn't been farmed for 30 yrs or so.
before that
probably corn and hay. it is decent soil, but not
great- clayey, and
hard packed in areas. fairly shallow root depth, and
limited organic
material. it is well covered with weeds and grass
that is laying
down in a nice thick thatch in some areas. in other
areas the ground
is nearly bare because this soil was completely
shaded by thick
canopy from a variety of woody stuff- pasture roses,
and something
that someone told us is related to honeysuckle.
anyway, we have been
clearing brush...stuff that came in in the last 25
yrs. no trees tho


we are thinking first to rake the weeds where we
have them into the
bedrows, cover it with a good layer of manure, and
add some lime
cause i am worried about the PH of the wood chips.
then maybe a
handfull of greensand or local 'blue granite' dust,
and cover with a
generous layer of the rottted hay and fresh straw.
we are thinking
we may not use paper or cardboard in these areas at
all as we will
have a good mulch layer and i don't think anything
can get up thru.

we have a rototiller, but i am only planning on
tilling the paths,
and then throwing some of that soil up on the beds
and sowing clover
in the lowered paths. they become the 'swales'

the limited compost we have we are going to have to
use selectively
mostly around the transplants themselves

(we are making compost as fast as we can and have
four piles going,
don't have any greens tho and it is slow cooking)

the areas that had the brush cover is basically the
same story,
except i will start with the paper because the mulch
layer is not as
deep

we are planning on cutting the 'stumps' off flush to
the ground, and
then covering them with cardboard and waste
vegetable oil (i have a
lot because i run a car on it) hoping! that nothing
can get thru

the roots are too big to remove by hand, and we
don't have a tractor
or winch or anything.

anyway, that's the gist of it

looking fwd to some other opinions

regards,
kevin and sarah
rattlesnakemountainfarm@yahoo.com
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 00:03:47 -0400
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: [permaculture] Centre for Biodiversity and utilisation and
Development (CBUD)
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <44349323.2090308@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed


Centre for Biodiversity and utilisation and Development (CBUD)
<http://www.knust.edu.gh/cbud/about_cbud.htm>

What is CBUD?
The Centre for Biodiversity and utilisation and Development (CBUD) is a programme hosted by the Kwame Nkrumah Univresity
of Science and Technology (KNUST) and funded by the Royal Netherlands Embassy in Accra. It is located within the
Institute of Renewable Natural Resources (IRNR) on the KNUST campus in Kumasi, Ghana.

Food Resources identified so far

Since the start of the programme in 1998, CBUD has identified a number of food resources that are considered endangered
or marginalised:

- PREKESE (Tetrapleura tetraptera)
Prekese (Tetrapheura tetraptera) which is an indigenous tree species belonging to the Mimosaceae family is one of the
one hundred and fifty seven class IV. timber tree species. It is popular among the Akans of Ghana for its use as a spice
and medicine for many ailments. Traditionally, the fruits, leaves, bark and roots are attributed to have important
medicinal properties.
USES OF PREKESE
Prekese has many potential uses and should therefore not be allowed to be destroyed. For instance it is a potential
source of raw material for the growing pole industry of Ghana, which is currently based on teak. Farmers are critical of
the negative environmental impact of teak therefore a suitable indigenous substitute which is agroforestry and
environmentally friendly, Prekese will be most welcomed by all classes of farmers/and tree growers. Other potential uses
of prekese include;

- SNAILS (Achatina spp.) & CRABS (Potoma spp.)

- INDIGENOUS LEAFY VEGETABLES (over 20 species, including cocoyam, Celosia, wild lettuce, Amaranthus, Talinum, bitter
leaves, vegetable jute, roselle, egg plant, cowpea, cassava, sweet potato, Cleome)

- GRASSCUTTERS (Thryonomys swinderianus)
Grasscutter what is it ?
The grasscutter (Thryonomys swinderianus) is a rodent of the suborder Hystricomorpha. The average adult weight is 3kg
for females and 4.5kg for males. It is the second largest African rodent after the porcupine.
Importance of Grasscutter rearing
1. It is a source of protein. Its meat is of excellent quality and is preferred by people from almost all tribes in
Ghana and many African Countries.

- KROBONKO or FLUTED PUMPKIN ( Telfairia occidentals)
Telfairia occidentalis, commonly called Fluted Pumpkin has other common names in various languages, which include:
Fluted Gourd, Telfairia Nut (English); Calabaza Costillada (Spanish); Iroko (Nigeria); Krobonko (Ghana); Oroko,
Pondokoko, Gonugbe (Sierra Leone).
It belongs to the family Cucurbitaceae; and originated from Tropical West Africa (not widely known in other parts of the
tropics). It is cultivated mainly in West Africa, especially Nigeria, Ghana and Sierra Leone. The crop is grown both for
its leaves and for the oily seeds contained in its large ribbed fruits.
Uses and Nutritional Values
-The young succulent/ vigorous shoots and leaves (from female plants) are used as a cooked vegetable.
-Seeds are ground for use in soups or boiled and eaten as a nut. Seeds contain 30% protein and a high percentage of a
non-drying oil.


All these food resources have the capacity to significantly increase the nutritional status of their consumers, as they
are high in protein, vitamins and essential minerals.

Some of these resources even have special medicinal uses; others can be transformed into other products such as candy,
beverages, baby food, condiments, soap, furniture and electricity poles in the case of prekese, for instance.



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:43:10 -0400
From: kevin s <k.skvorak@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] sheet mulch beds for CSA production?
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <a06210200c05ad11e58b2@[141.149.116.15]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

thanks for the replies,

re: >"Hugelkultur is nothing more than making raised beds
filled with rotten wood."


as far our brush piles go, i had thought about using them in this
way, and had read about the practice before. we are going to
experiment with a little of it today, on a couple of beds, but there
are a couple of practical issues for us here; the woody material is
really woody- very hard, and inflexible. very tough stuff. (someone
said related to honeysuckle, does this make sense? it has a lovely
scent when cut, smells something like elderberry) and the pasture
roses are just a torture to try to deal with

we will have to put a lot of labor into cutting the material up into
small enough lengths to get them to lie down, that is the main
drawback. it is less labor to use the other materials for mulch

as far as rock dust goes, does anyone have any suggestions for
discovering the mineral content of any particular source?

our local quarry is crushing 'blue granite' and will load the dust
from the slurry pond at 4 dollars a ton

we recently got the soil test back from our local extension office,
and we seem to be in pretty good shape with our existing soil. there
are already good levels all around of P, K, Mg, and Ca.

all the extension office recommends adding is 120 to 140lbs per ac
of nitrogen, (we'll get from compost and manure) and 20 lbs per acre
of P205 phosphate (whatever that is)

i think we'll be pretty good

i'm googling "blue granite" right now but not coming up with much useful yet

regards,
kevin


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:54:14 -0500
From: "Forest Garden" <forestgarden@gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] rainwater collection
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <005e01c65992$5a8cc4f0$0602a8c0@rosie>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

A question I would have is; how long do you plan on being there? If this is
a short term living place, well economics probably are an important factor -
although such an addition could increase the property value.

There are other non-ecomonic variables to consider. The quality of the
water is a consideration - rainwater is so good for plants. Also, I feel
there is tremendous uncertainty in the coming years (well, actually it is
already here) - there is definately going to be an energy descent of some
kind which will mean most methods of obtaining water will either be too
expensive or non-existant. In my mind, water is too critical an element to
be worrying about payback times. Especially since this is where we plan on
living for the rest of our lives.

We built a 35,000 gallon collection and storage system here in Central Texas
where 6 month droughts are the norm, and longer ones expected. The general
consensus in our area is this is minimally/reasonably sufficient for a
family of four; domestic use, gardens, and orchard.

Good luck. Trying to decide how best to use money for sustainability
projects is quite a challenge!

Marjory




----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles de Matas" <cdematas@hotmail.com>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 12:10 PM
Subject: [permaculture] rainwater collection


<<The bottom line is that such an approach will takesome 5 years for me to
recoup my costs. which strikes me as quite a long time

Any thoughts from anybody out there who faced similar dillemmas>>

What about the cost of connection to the public water supply? Have you
considered that?
I live on the caribbean island of Trinidad. I built a very small house
last
year. We have lots of rain during the rainly season but the dry season
lasts about 4 months. I reckon I can collect about 40 cu m. from my
roof.
For me to connect to the public water supply would cost a lot, since I
would have to run pipes for several hundred metres. Besides the public
water supply here is often unreliable during the dry season, when it's
needed most, and most people still have water tanks in the backyards. It
would be much cheaper for me to collect rainwater. I won't need much
water.
I will use a humanure composting system instead of a flush toilet and use
greywater to water plants.

Charles.
Trinidad.

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End of permaculture Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10
********************************************





  • Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10, mitshell, 04/06/2006

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