permaculture

[mitshell <mitshell@netvision.net.il>]

thanx for all the comments to the list regarding the rainwater costs
Mitch Schertz
Zichron Yaakov
Israel
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 6:00 PM
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10


> Send permaculture mailing list submissions to
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> permaculture-owner@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of permaculture digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. rainwater collection (Charles de Matas)
>   2. Re: sheet mulch beds for  CSA production? (Chris Jackson)
>   3. Centre for Biodiversity and utilisation and Development
>      (CBUD) (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>   4. Re: sheet mulch beds for  CSA production? (kevin s)
>   5. Re: rainwater collection (Forest Garden)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:10:21 +0000
> From: "Charles de Matas" <cdematas@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] rainwater collection
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <BAY19-F2B5B1EE693EB3C037337CC7CB0@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> <<The bottom line is that such an approach will takesome 5 years for me to
> recoup my costs.  which strikes me as quite a long time
>
> Any thoughts from anybody out there who faced similar dillemmas>>
>
> What about the cost of connection to the public water supply? Have you
> considered that?
> I live on the caribbean island of Trinidad. I built a very small house 
> last
> year.  We have lots of rain during the rainly season but the dry season
> lasts about 4  months.  I reckon I can collect about 40 cu m. from my 
> roof.
>   For me to connect to the public water supply would cost a lot, since I
> would have to run pipes for several hundred metres.  Besides the public
> water supply here is often unreliable during the dry season, when it's
> needed most, and most people still have water tanks in the backyards.  It
> would be much cheaper for me to collect rainwater. I won't need much 
> water.
> I will use a humanure composting system instead of a flush toilet and use
> greywater to water plants.
>
> Charles.
> Trinidad.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now!
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:30:12 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Chris Jackson <sidgeydog@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] sheet mulch beds for  CSA production?
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <20060405183012.40723.qmail@web36215.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Kevin,
> I found this website when I was researching a similar
> question:
> http://netptc.net/flowermanoat/wSAgHTM/Pages/index.htm
> Chris
>
> --- kevin s <k.skvorak@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > so,
> >
> > what is the largest area of sheet mulch beds that
> > folks have going?
> >
> > we are going to put in several thousand feet, and
> > try to grow some
> > vegetables for our new CSA in dutchess co NY.
> >
> > i haven't heard of anyone else going that way, maybe
> > there is?
> > please feel free to advise if so...
> >
> > to start we have:
> >
> > an adequate supply of somewhat composted (fresh
> > 'ish') horse manure
> > that is pretty much equal parts manure and wood
> > shavings.  lot's of
> > red worms in there. looks ok. i wish it was older
> >
> >   plenty  of fresh bedding straw from another horse
> > farm.  (very
> > little manure in it, they treat their horses well)
> >
> > also quite a lot of fairly well rotted hay that laid
> > out in a field all year
> >
> > several thousand feet of brown paper in rolls from a
> > wood fired
> > matzo place in the city
> >
> > and, not nearly enough finished compost
> >
> > the beds are going in following contour on a 5 to 10
> > percent slope,
> > on land that hasn't been farmed for 30 yrs or so.
> > before that
> > probably corn and hay.  it is decent soil, but not
> > great- clayey, and
> > hard packed in areas. fairly shallow root depth, and
> > limited organic
> > material.   it is well covered with weeds and grass
> > that is laying
> > down in a nice thick thatch in some areas.  in other
> > areas the ground
> > is nearly bare because this soil was completely
> > shaded by thick
> > canopy from a variety of woody stuff- pasture roses,
> > and something
> > that someone told us is related to honeysuckle.
> > anyway, we have been
> > clearing brush...stuff that came in in the last 25
> > yrs.  no trees tho
> >
> >
> > we are thinking first to rake the weeds where we
> > have them into the
> > bedrows, cover it with a good layer of manure, and
> > add some lime
> > cause i am worried about the PH of the wood chips.
> > then maybe a
> > handfull of greensand or local 'blue granite' dust,
> > and cover with a
> > generous layer of the rottted hay and fresh straw.
> > we are thinking
> > we may not use paper or cardboard in these areas at
> > all as we will
> > have a good mulch layer and i don't think anything
> > can get up thru.
> >
> > we have a rototiller, but i am only planning on
> > tilling the paths,
> > and then throwing some of that soil up on the beds
> > and sowing clover
> > in the lowered paths.  they become the 'swales'
> >
> > the limited  compost we have we are going to have to
> > use selectively
> > mostly around the transplants themselves
> >
> > (we are making compost as fast as we can and have
> > four piles going,
> > don't have any greens tho and it is slow cooking)
> >
> > the areas that had the brush cover is basically the
> > same story,
> > except i will start with the paper because the mulch
> > layer is not as
> > deep
> >
> > we are planning on cutting the 'stumps' off flush to
> > the ground, and
> > then covering them with cardboard and waste
> > vegetable oil (i have a
> > lot because i run a car on it) hoping! that nothing
> > can get thru
> >
> > the roots are too big to remove by hand, and we
> > don't have a tractor
> > or winch or anything.
> >
> > anyway, that's the gist of it
> >
> > looking fwd to some other opinions
> >
> > regards,
> > kevin and sarah
> > rattlesnakemountainfarm@yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 00:03:47 -0400
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Subject: [permaculture] Centre for Biodiversity and utilisation and
> Development (CBUD)
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <44349323.2090308@intrex.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>
> Centre for Biodiversity and utilisation and Development (CBUD)
> <http://www.knust.edu.gh/cbud/about_cbud.htm>
>
> What is CBUD?
> The Centre for Biodiversity and utilisation and Development (CBUD) is a 
> programme hosted by the Kwame Nkrumah Univresity
> of Science and Technology (KNUST) and funded by the Royal Netherlands 
> Embassy in Accra. It is located within the
> Institute of Renewable Natural Resources (IRNR) on the KNUST campus in 
> Kumasi, Ghana.
>
> Food Resources identified so far
>
> Since the start of the programme in 1998, CBUD has identified a number of 
> food resources that are considered endangered
> or marginalised:
>
> - PREKESE (Tetrapleura tetraptera)
>  Prekese (Tetrapheura tetraptera) which is an indigenous tree species 
> belonging to the Mimosaceae family is one of the
> one hundred and fifty seven class IV. timber tree species. It is popular 
> among the Akans of Ghana for its use as a spice
> and medicine for many ailments. Traditionally, the fruits, leaves, bark 
> and roots are attributed to have important
> medicinal properties.
> USES OF PREKESE
> Prekese has many potential uses and should therefore not be allowed to be 
> destroyed. For instance it is a potential
> source of raw material for the growing pole industry of Ghana, which is 
> currently based on teak. Farmers are critical of
> the negative environmental impact of teak therefore a suitable indigenous 
> substitute which is agroforestry and
> environmentally friendly, Prekese will be most welcomed by all classes of 
> farmers/and tree growers. Other potential uses
> of prekese include;
>
> - SNAILS (Achatina spp.) & CRABS (Potoma spp.)
>
> - INDIGENOUS LEAFY VEGETABLES (over 20 species, including cocoyam, 
> Celosia, wild lettuce, Amaranthus, Talinum, bitter
> leaves, vegetable jute, roselle, egg plant, cowpea, cassava, sweet potato, 
> Cleome)
>
> - GRASSCUTTERS (Thryonomys swinderianus)
> Grasscutter what is it ?
> The grasscutter (Thryonomys swinderianus) is a rodent of the suborder 
> Hystricomorpha. The average adult weight is 3kg
> for females and 4.5kg for males. It is the second largest African rodent 
> after the porcupine.
> Importance of Grasscutter rearing
> 1. It is a source of protein. Its meat is of excellent quality and is 
> preferred by people from almost all tribes in
> Ghana and many African Countries.
>
> - KROBONKO or FLUTED PUMPKIN ( Telfairia occidentals)
>  Telfairia occidentalis, commonly called Fluted Pumpkin has other common 
> names in various languages, which include:
> Fluted Gourd, Telfairia Nut (English); Calabaza Costillada (Spanish); 
> Iroko (Nigeria); Krobonko (Ghana); Oroko,
> Pondokoko, Gonugbe (Sierra Leone).
> It belongs to the family Cucurbitaceae; and originated from Tropical West 
> Africa (not widely known in other parts of the
> tropics). It is cultivated mainly in West Africa, especially Nigeria, 
> Ghana and Sierra Leone. The crop is grown both for
> its leaves and for the oily seeds contained in its large ribbed fruits.
> Uses and Nutritional Values
> -The young succulent/ vigorous shoots and leaves (from female plants) are 
> used as a cooked vegetable.
> -Seeds are ground for use in soups or boiled and eaten as a nut. Seeds 
> contain 30% protein and a high percentage of a
> non-drying oil.
>
>
> All these food resources have the capacity to significantly increase the 
> nutritional status of their consumers, as they
> are high in protein, vitamins and essential minerals.
>
> Some of these resources even have special medicinal uses; others can be 
> transformed into other products such as candy,
> beverages, baby food, condiments, soap, furniture and electricity poles in 
> the case of prekese, for instance.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:43:10 -0400
> From: kevin s <k.skvorak@verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] sheet mulch beds for  CSA production?
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <a06210200c05ad11e58b2@[141.149.116.15]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> thanks for the replies,
>
> re: >"Hugelkultur is nothing more than making raised beds
> > filled with rotten wood."
>
>
> as far our brush piles go, i had thought about using  them in this
> way, and had read about the practice before.  we are going to
> experiment with a little of it today, on a couple of beds,  but there
> are a couple of practical issues for us here;  the woody material is
> really woody- very hard, and inflexible.  very tough stuff. (someone
> said related to honeysuckle, does this make sense? it has a lovely
> scent when cut, smells something like elderberry)  and  the pasture
> roses are just a torture to try to deal with
>
>  we will have to put a lot of labor into cutting the material up into
> small enough lengths to get them to lie down, that is the main
> drawback. it is less labor to use the other materials for mulch
>
> as far as rock dust goes, does anyone have any suggestions for
> discovering the mineral content of any particular source?
>
> our local quarry is crushing 'blue granite' and will load  the dust
> from the slurry pond at 4 dollars a ton
>
> we recently got the soil test back from our local extension office,
> and we seem to be in pretty good shape with our existing soil.  there
> are already good levels all around of P, K, Mg, and Ca.
>
> all the extension office recommends  adding is 120 to 140lbs per ac
> of nitrogen, (we'll get from compost and manure) and 20 lbs per acre
> of P205 phosphate (whatever that is)
>
> i think we'll be pretty good
>
> i'm googling "blue granite" right now but not coming up with much useful 
> yet
>
> regards,
> kevin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:54:14 -0500
> From: "Forest Garden" <forestgarden@gvtc.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] rainwater collection
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <005e01c65992$5a8cc4f0$0602a8c0@rosie>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> A question I would have is; how long do you plan on being there?  If this 
> is
> a short term living place, well economics probably are an important 
> factor -
> although such an addition could increase the property value.
>
> There are other non-ecomonic variables to consider.  The quality of the
> water is a consideration - rainwater is so good for plants.  Also, I feel
> there is tremendous uncertainty in the coming years (well, actually it is
> already here) - there is definately going to be an energy descent of some
> kind which will mean most methods of obtaining water will either be too
> expensive or non-existant.  In my mind, water is too critical an element 
> to
> be worrying about payback times.  Especially since this is where we plan 
> on
> living for the rest of our lives.
>
> We built a 35,000 gallon collection and storage system here in Central 
> Texas
> where 6 month droughts are the norm, and longer ones expected.  The 
> general
> consensus in our area is this is minimally/reasonably sufficient for a
> family of four; domestic use, gardens, and orchard.
>
> Good luck.  Trying to decide how best to use money for sustainability
> projects is quite a challenge!
>
> Marjory
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles de Matas" <cdematas@hotmail.com>
> To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 12:10 PM
> Subject: [permaculture] rainwater collection
>
>
> > <<The bottom line is that such an approach will takesome 5 years for me 
> > to
> > recoup my costs.  which strikes me as quite a long time
> >
> > Any thoughts from anybody out there who faced similar dillemmas>>
> >
> > What about the cost of connection to the public water supply? Have you
> > considered that?
> > I live on the caribbean island of Trinidad. I built a very small house
> last
> > year.  We have lots of rain during the rainly season but the dry season
> > lasts about 4  months.  I reckon I can collect about 40 cu m. from my
> roof.
> >    For me to connect to the public water supply would cost a lot, since I
> > would have to run pipes for several hundred metres.  Besides the public
> > water supply here is often unreliable during the dry season, when it's
> > needed most, and most people still have water tanks in the backyards.  It
> > would be much cheaper for me to collect rainwater. I won't need much
> water.
> > I will use a humanure composting system instead of a flush toilet and use
> > greywater to water plants.
> >
> > Charles.
> > Trinidad.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now!
> > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10
> ********************************************