permaculture

["Michelle Maggiore" <mmaggior@mindspring.com>]

Hello,
It is with some trepidation that I sit and type my frustrations here, but
with high hopes of an answer, sooner rather than later.
Back in 2000, I took an online course in Permaculture, and for one reason or
another, was asked to complete another cycle (hence, more money) in 2001.
I  guess I could've taken a 2 week course in person somewhere, but with 3
small children,  a husband with a demanding schedule, and the closest course
being 8 hours away, this simply was not an option.
Online learning seemed the best way to not only tackle my fear of computers,
but also hopefully get a certificate in permaculture, and hopefully apply it
to our home design, and maybe eventually teach it myself, supplementing very
small income or even more importantly, spreading the world of permaculture.
In some ways, this is already the case; we homeschool, and our kids have
benefited  as have we from applying permaculture to our lives. I try to
share my information with friends, family and the barter network we
organized here last year.
However, I still am no closer to even having a certificate now, five years
later. I have completed two designs with lists and lists of species,
graphics, etc. etc. One design is over 80 pages long, and I feel it is very
well-written and worthy of a certificate. I had consulted with a woman who
also promised to help  me "fill in the blanks" in my learning, and provide
me a certificate, and a year later, and after $200, still nothing.
There are people in this area who DO want to learn about permaculture. I
want to eventually teach what I know to them, and with global warming being
now the headline news on the Washington Post, I still seem miles away from
achieving this modest goal. However, I do not want to broach anyone's
copyright, no matter how much time or money I have spent so far trying to
earn the right to use it.
I apologize for venting my frustration here- its just that after dealing
with an online course  teacher (to whom we gave all of our 2000 and 2001 tax
return money to so I could hopefully get a certificate and work toward a
degree that would mean SO VERY much to me), and then the above mentioned
certified consultant, I finally contacted the Tagari institute two weeks
ago. I have not heard back from them, either. I am truly worried that these
types of experiences are going to mar the good name of permaculture, if they
haven't already.
I do not wish to malign those who are providing very real educational
experiences, courses and certificates for their students- I know there are
many of you out there, as I read your informative and inspiring posts here
daily. I just wish to find someone who can offer some solid advice about
whom to contact, and how to achieve some peace in this issue. I am
wondering, too, how many others this might have happened to. People that
could've been good teachers, and out there sharing the wonderful of
permaculture who have somehow become entangled with the people who are
valuing making money over the healing of our planet.
There are probably many lessons to be learned here, but I am hoping I am
helping in the very least to help quell some future disppointments for those
who are looking to get a certificate in something they  believe in very
much, and end up instead with a headache.
For the Earth,
Michelle


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 36, Issue 54


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: using old carpet (Forest Garden)
>    2. ETHANOL: How to Beat the High Cost of Gasoline. Forever! -
>       February 06, 2006 (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>    3. Re: using old carpet (keithdj@mindspring.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:20:52 -0600
> From: "Forest Garden" <forestgarden@gvtc.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] using old carpet
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <003d01c6259f$feaa4fc0$0602a8c0@rosie>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Robyn and Wood,
>
> I've tried comfrey and I have a patch started again this year.  Although
> comfrey is usually considered invasive - it just can't take the heat out
> here.  I am trying to grow some in patches in cooler, shady spots because
I
> want to use it instead of seaweed for making compost tea.  But comfrey is
> hard to grow here - it only does well in a cooler micro-niche.
>
> I have some vetch growing great as an experimental plot around the edge of
a
> garden area and it is doing well.  I didn't realize it could be used to
> out-compete grass.  I will definately give that a try next fall.  And
thnaks
> for the tip about the fencing for support.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Marjory
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <woodsjay@cox.net>
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] using old carpet
>
>
> > Where I've had the problem of grasses (including bermuda grasses, crown
> vetch has solved the problem. However, crown vetch can't solve the problem
> unsupported. The use of old wire fencing which will allow the crown vetch
to
> get up in the air will do the trick.
> > >
> > > From: "Forest Garden" <forestgarden@gvtc.com>
> > > Date: 2006/01/29 Sun PM 02:17:30 EST
> > > To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [permaculture] using old carpet
> > >
> > > Hi Neils,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your response.  I currently use living mulches (white
and
> red
> > > clovers) in areas directly around the tree in areas I have hand
removed
> the
> > > bermuda grass.  I tried planting a variety of legumes directly into
the
> > > grasses - cow peas, winter peas, vetches, clovers, etc. as appropriate
> for
> > > each season.  The legumes could not compete with the grasses.  I was
> hoping
> > > the cow peas would at least shade them out some, but no.  I've also
been
> > > trying to move the soil micro-biology towards more fungually based in
an
> > > attempt to weaken the hold of the grasses.
> > >
> > > It is a continual effort to keep the bermuda clear in the rings around
> each
> > > tree that I have.  In addition to simply keeping back the grasses from
> the
> > > existing inner rings, I want to expand those rings as the tree roots
> will be
> > > wanting to spread out further as the trees get older.  I thought to
lay
> out
> > > the carpet in a ring outside of the inner ring.  The carpet would
weaken
> the
> > > grass so the hand removeal would be easier.  The only thing I've found
> that
> > > stops the grass is blocking from light over a long period of time.
I've
> > > tried almost everyhting else - including 20% vinegar in the middle of
a
> two
> > > month drought.  The grass thanked me for the moisture and kept right
on
> not
> > > even noticing the acidity...
> > >
> > > Black or clear plastic does work somewhat but needs a lot of rocks and
> logs
> > > to keep it held down.  Stiff carpet would be easiest to use and would
> stay
> > > in place in a windy situation.
> > >
> > > Oddly enough, thick layers of cardboard and hay for mulch really
didn't
> work
> > > that well.  The grass grew right through it, and very quickly.
> > >
> > > I don't intend to keep the carpet there forever - only for 6 to 9
months
> > > which would be long enough to really retard the grass.  The plan is
that
> I
> > > could retard the grass enough to be able to remove it easily.  Then I
> would
> > > plant with living mulches, and hopefully expand the rings outer
further.
> > >
> > > If you've never experienced it - you have no idea how tenacious
bermuda
> > > grass is!  I absolutely love it in the pastures since it is such a
great
> > > cover and holds the soils in so well even with heavy grazing.  But in
> the
> > > garden or orchad.... yikes.
> > >
> > > - Marjory
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
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> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:02:30 -0500
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Subject: [permaculture] ETHANOL: How to Beat the High Cost of
> Gasoline. Forever! - February 06, 2006
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <43DE2A86.3010203@intrex.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>
>
<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/02/06/8367959/i
ndex.htm?cnn=yes>
>
> How to Beat the High Cost of Gasoline. Forever!
> Stop dreaming about hydrogen. Ethanol is the answer to the energy dilemma.
It's clean and green and runs in today's
> cars. And in a generation, it could replace gas.
> Fortune Magazine
> By Adam Lashinsky and Nelson D. Schwartz
> January 24, 2006: 4:09 PM EST
>
>
> (FORTUNE Magazine) - You probably don't know it, but the answer to
America's gasoline addiction could be under the hood
> of your car. More than five million Tauruses, Explorers, Stratuses,
Suburbans, and other vehicles are already equipped
> with engines that can run on an energy source that costs less than
gasoline, produces almost none of the emissions that
> cause global warming, and comes from the Midwest, not the Middle East.
>
> These lucky drivers need never pay for gasoline again--if only they could
find this elusive fuel, called ethanol.
> Chemically, ethanol is identical to the grain alcohol you may have spiked
the punch with in college. It also went into
> gasohol, that 1970s concoction that brings back memories of Jimmy Carter
in a cardigan and outrageous subsidies from
> Washington. But while the chemistry is the same, the economics,
technology, and politics of ethanol are profoundly
> different.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:21:25 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
> From: keithdj@mindspring.com
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] using old carpet
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID:
> <12919677.1138634485437.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> (Where I've had the problem of grasses (including bermuda grasses, crown
> vetch has solved the problem. However, crown vetch can't solve the problem
> unsupported. The use of old wire fencing which will allow the crown vetch
to
> get up in the air will do the trick.)
>
> Upon recommending a vetch for her garden, a client planted Crown vetch. I
meant for her to plant an annual vetch not a perennial. Crown vetch has
roots that go a foot or more deep and is nearly impossible to kill. It tends
to strangle and pull down the other plants in the garden. Even comfrey
cringes.
>
> Only her persistent pruning of it keeps it marginally under control.
>
> Yes, it's good for bees, and yes, it's great for erosion control on steep
banks. I would even consider it for orchard plantings, but use caution when
planting in zone 1 and 2 if you wish to avoid increased maintenance and
hassle.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 36, Issue 54
> ********************************************