Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - Re: [permaculture] refresher courses

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: "Naomi Coleman" <scpi@tpg.com.au>
  • To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] refresher courses
  • Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 19:51:37 +1000

Hi all,

Naomi Coleman here from Southern Cross Permaculture Institute in Victoria Australia.

When we studied our PDC in 1991 we too heard about the idea of a "free refresher". However we couldnt find anyone who would offer us one, even when we offered to contribute in labour and money.

So instead we organised a PDC course ourselves and invited a number of teachers to teach it at our property, and we sat in and learned what we could. The next course we taught more and invited less teachers, and now 14 years later, we mentor teachers on the refresher policy, and offer half price courses to people who have a PDC already.

We have found that people tend to value the experience more if they contribute something towards the course. We give free courses to people who want to try their hand at teaching, if they have done a PDC with us already. That way they are familiar with our course style and content, as well as our philosophy, and we feel more comfortable letting people we already know loose on our students, who after all are paying for the experience.

Graduates who have done a PDC elsewhere are welcomed at half price, and we ask that they act as a resource person , especially in design task work.

Our profit margins are fairly marginal, and the half price course ensures that our expenses are covered. We usually have at least one person a year take up this offer, as well as one mentored teacher a year. We also offer one scholarship per course to people from developing countries, but they must be able to get themselves here. We too offer couple and group discounts.

Since we have been offering these discounts, other teachers in Aust have also started to offer them, which I think is positive.

More information is on our website at www.southerncrosspermaculture.com.au

All the best
Naomi


----- Original Message ----- From: <permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 2:00 AM
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 31, Issue 16


Send permaculture mailing list submissions to
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
permaculture-owner@lists.ibiblio.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of permaculture digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: "Free" Permacuture (Graham)
2. Lifestyle Gardening? No Thanks! (Graham)
3. Free permaculture (Graham)
4. Re: Lions and elephants on the Great Plains?
(Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
5. Re: "Free" Permacuture (Selwyn Polit)
6. Re: "Free" Permacuture (DAVIDMATTHEWEDGE@aol.com)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:03:18 +0100
From: Graham <grahamburnett@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] "Free" Permacuture
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>, "Permaculture
Magazine, Maddy Harland" <maddy@permaculture.co.uk>, PermaLearners
<permalearnersuk@yahoogroups.com>, Permaculture UK list
<permaculture_uk@yahoogroups.co.uk>
Message-ID: <430602C6.7080504@blueyonder.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed



Arina Pittman wrote:

Thanks for your reply Graham - please forward to the UK folks. I vaguely
remember hearing about it at my class, back in 1995 (?) with Bill Mollison
and Scott Pittman. But, then - my command of English was somewhat weak at
that time - so I am not sure if I heard it right.

I assumed it was part of pc ethics, that teacher waives his/her fee.... the
rest of cost must be still paid for (food, lodging, advertisement, handouts,
etc). The idea sounds consistent with the ethics - if the class is full, why
not allow someone to sit on, pay for ALL other expenses and refresh the
memory. The third ethic - share of surplus.

The main question is: is this rule upheld by the pc community at large or on
a voluntary basis? Is it or is it not part of the conduct in pc world?




Some teachers/organisers may well offer 'free' places to PDC graduates
on their courses, indeed I've offered places myself to folks who are
working towards their permaculture diplomas so that they can 'sit in' on
Design & Introductory courses, particulrly those who have been thinking
about running courses themselves and want to get a 'feel' for how to do
it. Interestingly, those who have taken up the offer have insisted on
making a contribution, even though I've said they weren't expected to.
They've helped out with cooking and other logistics, as well as making a
financial contribution. In one case I've been promised some bottles of
wine as soon as they produce some!

But that is down to my discretion and the fact that I felt able to offer
this. This is completely different from telling my students that it is
their 'right' to attend future PC courses 'free of charge' if they feel
so inclined. There has never been any agreement that this is the case
that I have heard of.

Cheers Graham


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 20:27:57 +0100
From: Graham <grahamburnett@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: [permaculture] Lifestyle Gardening? No Thanks!
To: Permaculture UK list <permaculture_uk@yahoogroups.co.uk>,
permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>, "Permaculture Magazine,
Maddy Harland" <maddy@permaculture.co.uk>, Permaculture Association
<office@permaculture.org.uk>, PermaLearners
<permalearnersuk@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <430632BD.7080506@blueyonder.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

A rant against TV 'Reality Gardening Shows' I've just written for the
Idler magazine;
http://www.spiralseed.co.uk/lifestyle/

Enjoy!

Graham


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 01:09:17 +0100
From: Graham <grahamburnett@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: [permaculture] Free permaculture
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <430674AD.3040104@blueyonder.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Not sure if all the repies from UK are getting thrpough, hence a fwd of
another UK teachers POV;

Yes, I agree Graham, the key issue here is that no teacher can speak for
all other teachers in what they are willing to offer. Whilst I agree
that if a course is running anyway an extra one might seem to make
little difference, there are also other issues to be aware of....
Smaller groups enable more one-to-one attention for students & while
this adopting this principle might start off as one extra student on a
course, if this was to continue being offered to all graduates, we could
end up with as many 'refreshers' on each course as first time students,
which in my mind would detract from the latter's experience.

Twelve is my ideal number on a course, any more than that gets crowded.
Ten to twelve is also the realistic minimum number of students to make
many courses financially viable. I also teach residential courses in
places where the maximum accommodation equates to only slightly above
the break even number of paying students. On Brownsea for instance, it
is a squeeze fitting in myself, my support tutor & our cook as 'extras'....

One of the four complementary criteria of is 'Symmetry' - which means
giving back to permaculture (& those who have pioneered it around the
World) in exchange for what you have got out of it yourself. A fair
exchange is the co-operative way (remember the principle?).. By taking
on the support role on a course & being given a chance if wanted to
teach a session or two, lots can be learned about running courses & by
fulfilling the role, future teachers can appreciate the value of what is
being done within it. A free place in exchange for support work is fine
& indeed an important role in teaching courses, but a purely one-way
energy exchange is simply parasitic behaviour & not at all 'Fair
shares'.... Why turn down the opportunity to learn about running courses
in such a hands-on way? Why do we assume that it would be better to 'do
nothing' in exchange for a refresher.

And finally we must remember that if we don't support our permaculture
teachers, they won't be able to afford to carry on running courses
(plenty have already fallen by the wayside because of this.

Blessings,

Aranya

Graham wrote:



Arina Pittman wrote:

>Thanks for your reply Graham - please forward to the UK folks. I vaguely
>remember hearing about it at my class, back in 1995 (?) with Bill
Mollison
>and Scott Pittman. But, then - my command of English was somewhat
weak at
>that time - so I am not sure if I heard it right.
>
>I assumed it was part of pc ethics, that teacher waives his/her
fee.... the
>rest of cost must be still paid for (food, lodging, advertisement,
handouts,
>etc). The idea sounds consistent with the ethics - if the class is
full, why
>not allow someone to sit on, pay for ALL other expenses and refresh the
>memory. The third ethic - share of surplus.
>
>The main question is: is this rule upheld by the pc community at
large or on
>a voluntary basis? Is it or is it not part of the conduct in pc world?
> >
> >
Some teachers/organisers may well offer 'free' places to PDC graduates
on their courses, indeed I've offered places myself to folks who are
working towards their permaculture diplomas so that they can 'sit in' on
Design & Introductory courses, particulrly those who have been thinking
about running courses themselves and want to get a 'feel' for how to do
it. Interestingly, those who have taken up the offer have insisted on
making a contribution, even though I've said they weren't expected to.
They've helped out with cooking and other logistics, as well as making a
financial contribution. In one case I've been promised some bottles of
wine as soon as they produce some!

But that is down to my discretion and the fact that I felt able to offer
this. This is completely different from telling my students that it is
their 'right' to attend future PC courses 'free of charge' if they feel
so inclined. There has never been any agreement that this is the case
that I have heard of.

Cheers Graham


SPONSORED LINKS
Permaculture
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Permaculture&w1=Permaculture&w2=Organic+farming&w3=Worm+farming&w4=Farming+organic&w5=Real+estate+farming&c=5&s=103&.sig=VsWyXYxTTA1UC-WMp1KVeg>
Organic farming
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Organic+farming&w1=Permaculture&w2=Organic+farming&w3=Worm+farming&w4=Farming+organic&w5=Real+estate+farming&c=5&s=103&.sig=PY3gV4oIHpk5LlcgnHNV3A>
Worm farming
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Worm+farming&w1=Permaculture&w2=Organic+farming&w3=Worm+farming&w4=Farming+organic&w5=Real+estate+farming&c=5&s=103&.sig=y3Q8SEd-_2JIksSJsZv7zg>

Farming organic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Farming+organic&w1=Permaculture&w2=Organic+farming&w3=Worm+farming&w4=Farming+organic&w5=Real+estate+farming&c=5&s=103&.sig=pIR70AzQRFX5f15EtrnnxA>
Real estate farming
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Real+estate+farming&w1=Permaculture&w2=Organic+farming&w3=Worm+farming&w4=Farming+organic&w5=Real+estate+farming&c=5&s=103&.sig=7jXwt1M5Bt6AIWrF7h-BQg>



------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

* Visit your group "permalearnersuk
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/permalearnersuk>" on the web.
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
permalearnersuk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:permalearnersuk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


------------------------------------------------------------------------




--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/77 - Release Date: 18/08/2005



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:15:47 -0400
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Lions and elephants on the Great Plains?
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4306A063.1030404@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Toby Hemenway wrote:

I'm not really into the idea of bringing large carnivores back, but maybe
big herbivores? How about back-cloning some mastodons or other biggies from
the pliocene/pleistocene and giving these lonely fruits some company?

Populate the American Prairie and similar regional lands elsewhere with
low-input, sustainably-grown grass-fed buffalo and bison. Harvest to
control populations as needed; market meat within each region - profits
get plowed back into the willdcrafted, sustainably-grown,
sustainably-harvested native livestock production system.




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 22:56:47 -0500
From: Selwyn Polit <selwyn@austintx.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] "Free" Permacuture
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050819225415.027549f8@mail.austintx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Hi,
that phenomenon seems to be around here in Texas. We are working to
remove that by offering discounts to past students. We have tried
50% discounts and that has worked quite well. We also offer
discounts to people bringing family members.

Selwyn Polit
Austin, Texas USA


At 8/18/2005:05:18 PM -0600, Arina Pittman wrote:
Greetings, Permies

I recently heard from a grapevine, about an agreement in the permaculture
community, under which students with prior certification can take
"refresher" permaculture certificate courses free of charge anywhere in the
world. Some people, I hear, use this rule differently, and offer only a
price reduction (i.e. instructor agrees to waive his/her fees, but there is
still a fee for attending). Some people have not heard about it.

My question for anyone on this list
- have you heard about this arrangement from a permaculture instructor
- are you a permaculture instructor, who respects and follows this rule
(i.e. teaches for free)
- are you a repeat student, who has had a chance to benefit from this rule
and take repeat courses free of charge, at a reduced price.

I would appreciate any feedback about this arrangement.

Best

Arina M. Pittman
EcoVersity
Managing Director
505-424-9797
www.ecoversity.org


__________
Selwyn Polit
(512)926-7876
<mailto:selwyn@austintx.com>selwyn@austintx.com








------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 04:18:50 EDT
From: DAVIDMATTHEWEDGE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [permaculture] "Free" Permacuture
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <88.2d346ac1.3038416a@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Selwyn Polit,
Austin, Texas USA wrote:

"Hi,
that phenomenon seems to be around here in Texas."

I'm not surprised that the idea has taken root in Texas. When I took my
design course from Scott Pittman and Bill Mollison near Austin at Fossil Rim
(then home of Cross Timbers PC institute) in 1996, it was specifically mentioned
to all course participants by one or the other (or both) of them.

The idea was that PDC graduates could attend same- or inferior-level (i.e.
fundamentals, introdouctory, etc.) courses and pay only room and board. It
was said to have been the case from the beginning of PC instruction.

Maybe this can shed some light on the origin of the idea.

David,
Vend?e, France


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture


End of permaculture Digest, Vol 31, Issue 16
********************************************



--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.5/68 - Release Date: 10/08/2005






  • Re: [permaculture] refresher courses, Naomi Coleman, 08/21/2005

Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page