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  • From: kevin s <k.skvorak@verizon.net>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [permaculture] Is it the right time for a new ecovillage/PC community in NY?
  • Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:48:37 -0500

dear folks,

I have been a reader of the list for awhile, and it has been, along with a purchase of the back issues of Permaculture Activist, invaluable in my own understanding of PC principles, and the history of the 'movement' . I especially appreciate the difficult conversations on this list which can be some of the most enlightening.

I am an uncertified PCer and neophyte for the most part, and have been working with an on again/off again/on again group that is working on a fairly ambitious ecovillage project in the Hudson Valley of NY.

We still have a very long way to go to make it happen, and don't have any land yet , but of course we do have a mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HVEcovillage/

This note is both an announcement of our efforts, and a request for input from experienced designers who have an interest in the region, if they should feel so generous We are of course also open to new members crazy enough to be part of pioneering a community.

I have been wondering about established communities with a relationship to 'organized' permaculture, and how well these communities work and don't work to meet peoples needs. I want to share some of how i see the needs of folks in our group, and how we are thinking about meeting those needs, but first i want to reflect a bit on established PC communities.

I will frame these reflections as somewhat provocative and i suppose rhetorical questions in this context, but they inherently influence any planning and design process;

To what degree are established permaculture communities demonstration projects, and to what degree do they serve the wider communities needs in 'real' ways? Isn't permaculture anyway just the principle under which all of our communities should be designed, and not necessarily the 'identity' of the community? What portion of an ecovillage communities income ought ideally to come from educational efforts, and how much from 'real' economic activity?

and how do we design for this balance? (this is my real question)

There is a pretty wide range of diversity in existing communities, and i know there is no right answer to these questions.

Back to our group.

I am sure that any PC educational component our project has can be a successful and viable one. In our region there has not been a whole lot of PC training offered, and there are a probably many folks who want it. (There is also a lot of other activism needs besides permaculture design that can be met well in community , and i personally like the work against corporations that is supported by OAEC and others. This is my own opinion, and i am not sure within our limited group that we all identify in this way with activist goals, and this is part of our diversity, and probably the diversity in any community.)

Anyway, I am sure we as a group could benefit from some sage advice from others already teaching permaculture as to how teaching should be planned by the community (if at all), and if there is a great need for another teaching facility in this region.


There are a lot of other challenges, as well as opportunities in our area. Land is expensive, and being made more so daily by all the various real estate pressures. Now with the fear mongering around social security, and real cuts in retirement benefits everywhere, more people are being coerced/convinced to base their future 'security' (taking on massive current debt) speculating on an endlessly rising and inherently destructive real estate market that acts to diminish the real value of the land even as it's moneyed value goes up and up.

This is bad of course, but there are opportunities within this dysfunction for a conscientious community to partner with others working to protect open and and farmland in a land acquisition/development/restoration strategy, and i hope we can do that here. Existing land trusts here are active and fairly well supported, and there is a lot of community mobilization to this ceaseless development pressure.

It seems that establishing a land trust to hold the land, and long term leases for the 'tenants' is one workable solution, but there is not yet unanimity in our group on this, and the issue of personal equity is going to remain a tricky one in an area where land prices, and initial investments are likely to be high. I am not sure we will even be able to resolve it enough to move fwd, we shall see.

Many of our folks needs might simply be served by a cohousing or even shared housing community where equity/investment relationships are clear, and selling is easy, and can even generate a profit. Many of these are folks approaching retirement age, and are rightly concerned with overly risking these hard won reserves. Why should they risk this on some crazy ecovillage model? We will have to develop a plan to meet these needs, and address these concerns if we are to suceed.

It is a real cognitive challenge for folks to envision and invest in a sustainable village model that also offers opportunities for 'low income' folks and young people who have not already gathered their retirement savings in this current suicide economy. Prioritizing opportunities for young folks to earn a 'right lively hood' has to be a central part of the model, and this is going to be one of the biggest challenges. I think we might have some ways to create some functioning models of partnership between the "have's" and "have not's" and one that is being discussed here is the building of the initial cohousing style units by the less moneyed members of the community for shares/local exchange units that allow them to 'buy' (or long term lease) their own small building lots. These 'shares' can also be used to help fund small start up businesses for younger community members, and shares can be purchased or earned by others outside the community, spreading the pool of 'investors'. A Solari type fund, or another local exchange system might be able to meet these needs. It may be a difficult thing to structure, but it seems that something like this is needed in order for passionate and talented young folks to want to be part of the community, and to not just find it more economically viable to 'go it alone' in the existing system which still has many benefits, however unsustainable they are.

There is a lot that is going to be involved here, and we could no doubt benefit here from others who have experience in local currencies, or other local investment models. Any ideas?

There are also plenty of existing (relatively) sustainable economic opportunities here, and this region has relatively deep progressive 'pockets' (culturally i mean) and there are growing opportunities for folks serving these communities which is evident in the growing success of CSA's and organic farms, the growing use of sustainable building and design in the region, and a lot more. Compared to other ecovillage efforts in the mountains of North Carolina, the plains of the midwest, and elsewhere, we should have it relatively easy in this regard when we actually get 'on the ground.'

As another announcement, we are having a two day organizing retreat in Ulster county on the 16th and 17th of April if anyone in the region is interested. The best way to get in touch with us, is probably through the yahoo group list above. If you are not on yahoo, and don't want to join, you can send me a message and i'll try to make sure it get's thru.

thanks,
kevin skvorak
Hudson valley, NY










  • [permaculture] Is it the right time for a new ecovillage/PC community in NY?, kevin s, 04/02/2005

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