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  • From: Scott Pittman <pci@permaculture-inst.org>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [permaculture] Re: permaculture versus the big dogs
  • Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 14:25:57 -0700

Toby Hemenway wrote:

I agree that many who have taken a PDC don't understand what Pc is. Some of
it is because lecture courses are not very effective relative to other
formats. But I believe the reasons have much more to do with 1) a 72-hour
PDC offers less time spent on the subject than a single college course (a
tough college class is roughly 32 hours in class with 2-4 hours of
homework/study for every hour in class--far more than a PDC and another
reason I can't accept the 9- or 10-day format); and 2) Pc often is so wildly
at variance with any other knowledge that the student has that there is no
place for Pc knowledge to "sit." It doesn't fit, and takes more than one
exposure for most people to grasp it.

I couldn't agree more! For most people to shift from a linear, specialist mindset to a pattern literate, right brained mode flies in the face of
their whole educational experience. I have always thought that the Certification course presents a new matrix on which to build new information
and to reassemble knowledge already held into different relationships regarding visible and invisible structures.

Maybe everyone doesn't leave a permaculture designer but, with good teachers, they leave with a different mindset and way to look at the
world. The course is life changeing for most who experience it, and that to me is the mark of its success.


I've often wondered about this, both as to why that is, and also to what
extent it is true. I'm not so familiar with eco-psychology, but ecological
design has had some very powerful advocates in this country from the get-go:
Whole Earth Review, Bill McDonough, and other vocal and charismatic voices;
the Natural Step has Paul Hawken and a wide pool of scientists and
financiers, and was specifically created at a high political level with
their input and needs in mind.

I don't think that Green Capitalism, or Natural Step are contributing much to solving the problems of the world, and that they are successful for
that very reason, they don't challange the current social economic constructs, which are impoverishing the whole planet. Capitalism is as
bankrupt as is communism but no one wants to rock the boat of a potential mass movement, another measure of success. O f course they
get lots of money and get to redesign the Ford plant, they agree, basically, with the coporate/industrial model but would like for it to be a
little more green, to slow down the depletion of resourses so we have enough for seven generations instead of two.

They love Ford and Rockefeller money and would never challange the right of those families to own the wealth of whole nations while their
employees are likes rats in a wheel producing more wealth for the owners. Any system of design that does not challenge the current distribution
of wealth, and the right of everyone to have meaningful, and appropriately compensated work is not worth discussing.


Its (/permaculture)/ followers are often unwashed, angry,
deliberately impoverished, and nearly as alienating as Mollison.


I think that this is a little over stated and simplistic. A lot of the people who come to pc for answers have rejected the current social/economic
model and are therefore a little shy of cash, but I find most of them very willing to create a new order, and searching for answers. I am happy
that they find permaculture compelling, and I attempt to direct them, throught the course, to more positivistic ways to affect change rather than
curseing the dark.
There is no reason Pc couldn't have been used to redesign Ford's River Rouge
plant instead of McDonough's approach. I suppose some would consider that a
good thing, as if mainstream acceptance and financial prosperity somehow
impugn our purity, but I think the ideas of Pc can coexist with prosperity.
After all, nature is very materially abundant and constantly increases its
own capital (biomass, energy capture, etc).


I don't think that most in the pc movement have a problem with mainstream acceptance or financial prosperity, per se, but are unwilling to
sacrifice their ethics to accomplish such. This doesn't necessarily mean that there is no acceptance or prosperity just that it takes a little longer.
Perhaps it is the loss of ethical values that would impugn our purity. Nature is very materially abundant but I have never seen a healthy
natural system in which one individual hogged all the available resources to the detriment, not only to other related individuals, but to the whole
system.

But also, I don't think Pc has "failed" to the extent Michael does. Pc is a
grassroots approach; Eco-design and Natural Step are top-down approaches
introduced with huge funding and big fanfare by famous people. One makes a
big noise and get glitzy results; the other builds slowly. One could also
say that the entire environmental movement is a failure: most Westerners
still drive cars, eat fast food, buy non-organic, pollute grossly, and
little significant legislation exists in the US to support it; yet its ideas
have seeped into the culture.
And there are thousands of individuals around the world providing good models for decent human behaviour. The top-down
"glitzy" results are mostly smoke and mirrors, and when all is said and done have not changed much for the better. After Anita
Roddick, and recycled carpet what else is there to point to that indicates a positive future??

The same with Pc: I am seeing the word on the
covers of magazines, in catalogs, in newspapers, and in schools in hugely
greater numbers than ever before. Just as it will take a while to break our
addiction to oil, it will take a while for Pc's radical notions to tunnel
into the collective consciousness. They don't fit anywhere yet. But I'm
willing to be patient.


Amen brother!!, me too.

Scott



  • [permaculture] Re: permaculture versus the big dogs, Scott Pittman, 03/06/2005

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