permaculture

[Scott Pittman <pci@permaculture-inst.org>]

permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. cement in the environment (Paul Wheaton)
>   2. Re: cement in the environment (Don)
>   3. Fwd: Indonesian village (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> [permaculture] cement in the environment
> From:
> Paul Wheaton <paul@richsoil.com>
> Date:
> Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:36:11 -0800 (PST)
> To:
> permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>
> To:
> permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>
>
> I keep encountering situations where some cement would fix things right up.  
> But I seem
> to recall that cement is bad for the environment.  Anybody know what problems 
> cement causes?
>
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> Re: [permaculture] cement in the environment
> From:
> "Don" <ujgs@4dirs.com>
> Date:
> Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:55:44 -0700
> To:
> <paul@richsoil.com>, "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>
> To:
> <paul@richsoil.com>, "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>
>
> you know what I need clarification here. Cement is the bonding agent 
> that holds together the aggregates.
>
> Concrete is the combination of aggregates and cement.
>
> ???don
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Wheaton" <paul@richsoil.com>
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 4:36 PM
> Subject: [permaculture] cement in the environment
>
>
> > I keep encountering situations where some cement would fix things 
> > right up. But I seem
> > to recall that cement is bad for the environment.  Anybody know what 
> > problems cement causes?
> > _______________________________________________
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>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> [permaculture] Fwd: Indonesian village
> From:
> "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Date:
> Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:42:25 -0800
> To:
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> To:
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [SANET-MG] Indonesian village
> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:25:54 +1100
> From: Dennis Argall <dennisargall@BIGPOND.COM>
> Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group 
> <SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
> To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
>
> The immediate reason for my rejoining SANET is that I expect shortly to
> be asked to moderate an on-line discussion forum for a non-political,
> non-religious internet group. The purpose of the particular forum is to
> try to address these things for a very small village of tenant farmers
> in an ancient farming area in Java:
>
> "Poverty
> "This community is very poor. The farmers don't own land so they have
> to rent it. As they have no money and banks won't give them a loan,
> they have to rely on loan sharks. The end of the story is that most of
> their income goes to paying off the debts and the very high interest
> rates.
>
> "And how to get out of it
> The people of xxxx have come up with 3 courses of action:
>  Organize themselves
>  Find sources that give credit on fair terms
>  Find ways to supplement their farming income."
>
> In particular there is a request for expertise in padi rice and soybean
> production - but I'm sure there are very broad issues of sustainable
> living that will come into the picture too. So I'd be pleased to hear
> from people particular crop knowledge but also people with a broader
> interest - I'd imagine that solving the crop problem depends on more
> than just that.
>
> In this new forum, I will be advancing the sort of community values in
> this little piece of paper:
> http://aplaceof.info/healthyunhealthy.pdf
>
> I know from experience elsewhere, especially in a group I established
> in 2000 -
> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/OzBrainTumour/
> that it is possible to have a discussion group that works harmoniously,
> without any big rules - but with commitment to the idea that life and
> cooperation are not zero sum games. It was the physiologist Albert
> Szent Gyorgi who wrote in a book he published while at Woods Hole that
> "1+1>2".
> Or, at more length:
> "One particle, plus one particle, put together at random, are two
> particles, 1+1=2; the system is additive. But if two particles are put
> together in a meaningful way then something new is born which is more
> than their sum: 1+1>2. This is the most basic equation of biology. It
> can also be called organisation." Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, Bioelectronics:
> A Study in Cellular Regulations, Defense, and Cancer, Academic Press
> New York, 1968, p 4.
>
> Write to me at dennisargall@bigpond.com if you are interested - or this
> may be a subject for interesting discussion here.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Dennis

Dennis this is the same dilemma that German farmers found themselves in 
Germany back in the 1830's which led to the formation of Financial 
Co-ops which evolved into what we know today as Credit Unions  We chose 
this model when we founded the Permaculture Credit Union.
I also visited a unique banking system in Thailand which was a Farmer's 
rice bank, in which all the Farmers of a region place a certain 
percentage of their annual crop into the co-op, where it is stored and 
can be used by other farmers who have had a bad year as a loan.  
Basically both of these systems are user owned and because of their 
structure there is little to no incentive for usury.

I think that this is a great subject and is often neglected in pc 
conversations - this is the invisible part that is so critical to the 
sucess of the visible.

Scott Pittman