permaculture

["Edward" <edward@iinet.net.au>]

Hello Folks

Here in Western Australia, far from the madding crowd, the practice and
sharing of ideas about sustainable living has had many ups & downs over
the years that I've been associated with it in the form of Permaculture.

I've seen people of both sexes share many emotions; joy, delight,
anxiety, anger, apathy, happiness etc., and I believe it's important to
separate the emotion from the message and the message from the
messenger.

However, that requires a maturity of character and independence of
thought usually only possible after considering many points of view and
removing one's own ego from the arena.

I am interested that in the USA, permaculture is known by some as the
movement of angry men. Whether Bill Mollison has demonstrated anger or
not is rather beside the point. Emotions tend to resonate with a
sympathetic mind and I suggest that a possibility is that there are
simply a lot of angry men in the US and that it is a cultural tendency
for them to express themselves in violent speech or action. There are
certainly pockets of that tendency here in Australia also.

Either way, just because Bill might be angry doesn't mean that I have to
be - in fact I was quite exhilarated by his obvious energy for the
subject.
I choose not to be angry, but to be enthusiastic.

And by the way, anger is not a 'bad' thing, just another emotion - it's
how one chooses to use the energy that matters.

M Scott Peck has famously illustrated the process of community
development from  what he terms 'pseudocommunity' through chaos and
silence to a mature working, accepting, functional relationship. This
would appear to be an observable process for all community formation
(even online :)

However, there is one fundamental guideline - if there is to be a
community, then everyone has to commit to having it happen. And the only
people that may legitimately be excluded are those who are actively
seeking to prevent it from happening.

As I see this list though, it is not a community, but a useful tool, for
which I am grateful, and I thank you all.

Shall we share our solutions for a while then and leave the vitriol?

All the best, Edward

Edward Brown
edward@iinet.net.au


-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Golden Love
Sent: Sunday, 19 September 2004 9:50 PM
To: 'permaculture'
Subject: RE: [permaculture] the movement of angry men

What we see in others could be our own stuff. I have seen many loving
and
enthusiastic people, quite the opposite of your possible projection.

Golden Love
Love's Gardens
Creating and Maintaining Sustainable Urban Landscapes
California Licensed Contractor C27 363672
127 National St.
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
Phone  (831) 471-9100
Fax  ( 831) 471-9200
goldenlove@cruzio.com
 
-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Michael
Kramer
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:58 PM
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [permaculture] the movement of angry men

For as long as I've been a part of this permaculture movement, it has
been
known as a movement of angry men. This listerv has upheld that
observation
over the years, and these recent threads about permaculture, course
fees,
and certification support this assertion.  It seems people so
desparately
need to be affirmed for what they believe and are so bothered by
diversity
of thought that they alienate others even while ironically wanting to be
part of a community of permaculture brothers and sisters. But many women
have specifically suggested that they resist permaculture precisely
because
of the angry masculinity of its participants, and they assert that much
of
permaculture's curricula, teaching style, and applications are primarily
(some say exclusively) masculine. And when people try to modify course
content and/or teach more holistically there is resistance from male
permaculturists that this is not permaculture, that it's got to be this
way
or that way, that people can't be trusted to change things until they've
taught the design course the "original" way at least 50 times or
something.
Many fear their own succession, perhaps. What if Mollison's views of
permaculture are only a foundation, though. What if that system is
incomplete or in need of reform? Do we resist this evolution, or go with
the
flow?

The masculine way (and I say it this way because some women in this
movement
also embody these characteristics) is to need to be right, to control
situations and the views of others, and to be the center of attention or
in
positions of power or authority. Since there is no clear power or
authority
in this movement in the US, there has been a consistent jockeying for
this
position, no matter what the consequences. Due to a
survival-of-the-fittest
approach, some are threatened by innovative and divergent thinking (like
applying zonation to non-land systems); it stimulates an adrenalin
reaction
of "eat or be eaten", which can result in putting others down as a way
to
protect oneself or thinking critically as a way to tear down authority.
Since men in particular have authority issues, being questioned ruffles
the
feathers of many of us, which might explain why some people enjoy doing
the
ruffling.  

It is this pattern of violent communication, combined with the
self-righteousness some develop from concluding that they (and only
they)
have the appropriate grasp of permaculture (or believe it is the only
valid
system for global change), which prevents us from building bridges
within
our movement and with our society: with women, with men, with other
social
movements, with schools, with scientists, policymakers, etc.
Unfortunately
much harm has already been done by Bill Mollison, who alienated
thousands of
people in his day with his insensitive comments, ranting and raving, and
harsh judgments that left people disturbed by a bizarre combination of
brilliance and immature adolescence. In his most recent trip to the
United
States, he was undoubtedly unaware of how others perceived him, but
let's
just say it's no longer positive. It's such a disservice, as is the
insensitivity and righteousness on this list, in many of the
permaculture
courses, and within the community of permaculturists itself - so much
ego,
so much rugged individualism, such an inability to work together as a
group
of people dedicated to our work. We are so committed to Earth care that
we
forget about the whole Care of People ethic, which is the glue for any
social movement. It's not the ideas that matter, it's getting people to
agree that's the primary obstacle in any organization, and that's
probably
why we're not functioning like an organization; we seem to prefer chaos
and
the angry anarchy that accompanies it. We've got to get our act
together,
get mature, and get organized if we're going to be a real social
movement in
the United States. 

-----
Michael Kramer
Natural Investment Services
P.O. Box 390595
Keauhou, HI 96739

www.NaturalInvesting.com
808-331-0910
Toll-free: 888-779-1500

"Be the change you wish to see in the world."
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