permaculture

[Ute Bohnsack <sustag@eircom.net>]

Hello sam,
further to my other message, I'm not going out on a limb on the
rootstock issue as I just don't US rootstocks and their properties.
(We mostly use the Malling (M) and Merton-Malling (MM) series here in
Europe) but on NFT: I just got the latest USDA Inside Agroforestry
newsletter in the post. Do subscribe to it if you haven't already.
Amazingly, it's free. There is an article on "Improving financial
returns early in an orchard's life through alley cropping with an
example from Maine were sea buckthorn is interplanted with apples.
See this link 
http://www.sare.org/reporting/report_viewer.asp?pn=FNE00-328&ry=2000&rf=0

Summary

      Because it may take five to ten years to establish an orchard, this 
project is
   aimed at developing an integrated cropping system to allow for early 
returns.
   Sea buckthorn, small grains, and vegetables will be grown between the apple
   trees in the orchard, and the farmer will compare his returns with orchard
   budgets prepared by Cooperative Extension.

   Unfortunately that's all the info there is on that page but there is
   a contact phone no. And the full article is available at
   http://www.unl.edu/nac/ia/summerfall03/summerfall03.pdf      (see
   page 9)

 The question is, can you grow Hippophae in Northern Wisconsin?
 Perhaps you have to look at other species (e.g. Caragana, Elaeagnus).
 I planted some Hippophae around my first little 'orchard' here in
 Ireland. The apples are seven years old, the sea buckthorn 5, but the
 sea buckthorn are twice the size of the apple trees now even though they 
were only a
 foot high when planted. But then I'm in a temperate atlantic climate
 here. Sea buckthorn also suckers - not a problem for me as I
 transplant them or simply mow them down, but this could be a problem
 with annual cropping in between rows.
 
   All the best,
   Ute


Tuesday, November 4, 2003, 6:21:43 AM, you wrote:


sb> hello, i have ten acres in northern wisconsin, on the south side of lake 
superior making it a cold zone 4.  the soil is pH 4-5 and pure sand with an 
inch or so of topsoil and a lot of iron in it.
sb>  the land used to be field for grazing horses i beleive. 
 
sb> i have plans to develop it into a permaculture style farm and am looking 
for help on several issues from the list:
 
sb> my main plan is to cover about half of it alley crop style. in order to 
make it financially i plan to develop a regular organic perennial flower/herb 
nursery, annual flower greenhouse and basil,
sb> tomato, spinach/malabar spinach greenhouse to provide value added crops 
in the alleys.  the rows will be fruit tree guilds, mostly apple, pear and 
plum based.  
 
sb> my question is this:
sb> the companies i plan to buy my trees from recommend standard trees for 
the cold climate (anatonovka rootstock i beleive).  they recommend a spacing 
of atleast 35 feet.  but since i will be doing
sb> alley cropping there will be atleast 50 feet between the rows of fruit 
trees.  can i pinch the spacing on the row.  i see pictures of rows and 
hedges people have planted and fully understand the
sb> concept, but i dont see how an apple tree that is recommended to have 35 
foot spacing is going to produce remotely well if its spaced ten or fifteen 
feet with other fruit trees, countless guild
sb> trees AND an overstory layer.  recommendations on spacing and expected 
harvests?  
 
sb> how often do you place the nft's (nitrogen fixing trees) in a fruit 
orchard?  i was going to try to have one nft working with four fruit trees 
permanently and have more nft and plants during the
sb> establishment time, the first 4 or 5 years or so.  
 
sb> how much do you think the fruit and other trees in the rows will effect 
the annual crops in the center thru hair roots?
 
sb> any suggestions greatly appreciated 
 
sb> samm