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- From: "permaculture.biz" <darren@permaculture.biz>
- To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>, "permaculture-oceania" <permaculture-oceania@lists.cat.org.au>
- Cc:
- Subject: [permaculture] FW: Income from Permaculture
- Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:45:55 +1000
-----Original Message----- Hi Darren Yes there will be a list of teachers that
PIL endorse to teach APT. And I think that PIL will eventually be a self
regulating industry body. Are you a member currently? We are
coming up to an AGM and would like to see as many permies in there as
possible. If not please join and voice your views. Go to the web site and down load the
membership form and send it in along with your nomination for a position.
It would be good to have you on the board. Janet -----Original Message----- Hi
Janet, I
don’t see what is so strange about being called a Permaculture
professional. And yes Janet you are a professional as you have demonstrated.
Just the same as any person deriving an income (remember the ATO doesn’t
discriminate on what is income!) from Permaculture is. My wife is an
actor who contributes financially to our family – nothing so unusual
there. I’ve been independently making my living as a permaculture
designer and contractor for over ten years now having decided at age 25 that
this was the career path I wanted to go down. I am now at a stage where I
certainly can’t imagine doing anything else. Perhaps I am a rarity in
doing so – others out there can comment as to their own situation. Sure
being professional means that you’re doing something for the money
– I certainly am – how else do I pay the mortgage, this internet
access, utilities etc. etc. I wish I could use LETS to do this – but I can’t
say I’m hung up about it. If some in the movement have hang-ups about
this or associated issues then that is their right – as it is mine to do
as I’m entitled. As for the failure of relationships etc. due to money
issues – well that’s life in all quarters. After my foray up in
Maleny last year I did a new business plan that determined a path of lower
income generation (and lower hourly rates) as a result of better management
practices, reducing operating costs and by living more frugally and
sustainably. The analogy here is of a system that is reaching maturity
requiring fewer inputs and is more stable and predictable after years of
preparation, amendment and husbandry. The crux
of the issue as I’ve raising it is this. I, for example, work to abide by
ethical standards of practice as a businessperson. I also chose to operate as a
permaculture-based business – which to me means that the Permaculture
Ethics frame the context of my business and its products and services. I
regularly get asked about my qualifications and what professional memberships I
have – and for some potential clients who are forking out sometimes
hundreds of thousands of dollars based on my advice it is important that who
they are dealing with has some form of peer approval – as would a surveyor
or civil engineer. I’m sure I have lost work over it – not a lot
– but any is enough. I must
say that the being on the edge of society is somewhere I have always tried to
stray from being – as I state on my website – “Our mission has always been to help raise the
profile of permaculture design to the point where it becomes an unconscious
practice as opposed to a marginal methodology.” Being on
the edge is good for a while but it soon wears thin – the road of those
who have jumped into Permaculture, Landcare, Volunteering and other
passion-fuelled modalities is littered with roadkill. Being a radical is ok for
some but it doesn’t help convince a sheep farmer struggling to keep his
family farm. As many of us know our simple approaches can be all the difference.
We need to break down any barriers that exist to mainstream what we are doing
without losing the integrity of what we are on about – its clear to all
of us – but not clear at all to anyone else out there. Is
professional certification of permaculture practitioners something that PIL or
others are looking at doing – it would appear a natural step – or
is this the stuff of bureaucratization – something that is historically
counter to the paradigms of permaculture. What are
other people’s perspectives? Especially those who are making a living or
part of their income from permaculture. Anyway
its been a long day on the CAD – another sheep property! I have no
problem counting sheep I can tell you. Baaaaah!
Cheers, Yours and
Growing, Darren J.
Doherty Applied Diploma of Permaculture Design,
(Education, Site Design, System Establishment & Implementation)
Permaculture Institute (1995) Permaculture
Design Certificate, Permaculture Institute (1993, 1995, 2001) Whole Farm
Planning Certificate (Train the Trainer), University of Melbourne (1995) permaculture designer
@ permaculture.biz a. 103 Casey St, East Bendigo, Victoria, Australia, 3550 p. 613 5444 1068 f. 613 5444 0621 -----Original Message----- The
Institutionalization is a big issue. Do we create what we want to get
away from? Or do we remain outside the mainstream with them picking out all the
easy to adopt or softer options and leave Permaculture with all the hard
options with the loss of balance and becoming less and less attractive? I
don’t know who coined the phrase “Permaculture by stealth” I
think it was Geoff Lawton but that is what we have to do. I am of the
mind that whatever we need to do to turn this thing around we should bloody
well do and bloody quickly. The term
“permaculture Professionals” is a strange one as professional
usually means doing it for money…it also has the connotations of doing it
well and we all know they are not necessarily the same people.
Permaculture has this core of people who still shudder and squirm at the
mention of money as an exchange system. And I understand where they are
coming from. Money for its own sake and as the measure of success is an ugly,
ugly thing. Yet it is a fact that no pc property around here has ever failed or
suffered from any natural disaster but plenty have failed because of the
financial realities of the current dominant system and failure of relationships
and often both. A
permaculture professional to me is one that knows their stuff, sticks to the
ethics, walks their talk and can maintain their own quality of life without
sacrifice (be sustainable) using all the exchange systems available ( money,
barter, trade etc). At this stage I am no professional as Mick has to
work off farm to support what I do in and for Permaculture. I know my
stuff and I think I walk my talk but I can’t trade that to the council
for rates…even though I donate many, many hours to community
projects. I am a Permaculture Practitioner looking to becoming a
professional. The
original education system of Permaculture is a very successful and wonderful
thing and its value must never be diminished. It has been a strong arm
but now we want two arms and inevitably there are going to be those who want to
set themselves up as centers of education dissemination. In the past some
of these have been criticized by their peers for being something they are not
and the higher the profile the larger the complaints. I have heard things
like “…… is trying to take over Pc” or ”they
think they own Pc but they aren’t that good.” So, many kept
their heads down. There was no measuring stick no course assessments no
evaluations no standards. And didn’t they scream when Bill simply
asked for a demonstration that the whole curriculum be covered. It is
time that those who have the qualifications (as listed by their peers), who
have developed good systems and who have happy and successful students stuck their
heads up and say “We do this here and you can come and get some from us
if you want to”. Then we can move forward. If we stay in this
comfortable country and snipe at each other the rest of the world will wash or
blow away before we can help. Australia
needs to be a centre of excellence of education in Permaculture and that system
should spin off excellent practitioners that make a difference. If the
new APT is half as successful in doing that as the original system then I will
be very happy. The new system gives us access to funding and those that
otherwise would never come our way. I could
go on Darren but I must get back to work. Happy to discuss this with you. Thanks Janet -----Original Message----- Hi
Janet, Your
response was like gypsum to the turbid mind – it gathered all the
floccules. One negative about all of this all of the new (and constant
obsolescence of) acronyms we’ll have to cram ourselves with. My spin
is that it appears that this whole process, together with David
Holmgren’s new and very important work, signifies a shift to maturity for
our movement and its (inevitable if to survive) move into the mainstream. The
only danger is with rampant ego’s and stupid and unnecessary politics.
Cooperation not Competition is the key. Maintaining a transparent process I
agree is the only way to go. What we have to sell in Permaculture is extremely
potent and promises much for those who grasp it. The more people we can get the
message to (who want to hear it) the better. Forums such as these present an
excellent platform to keep many of us (at least those connected) informed in
very democratic and free debate and discussion. The next
question that comes to mind revolve around Institutionalisation of Permaculture
professionals – such as with other professionals – I know that over
some time this issue has been raised – however with all of this
mainstreaming of some part of Permaculture education system I would anticipate
better conditions for the development of such bodies. I’d be keen to hear
people’s thought’s on this issue. Thanks
again Janet. Its
raining inches gently down here – we need about 3 weeks of
it…… Cheers, Yours and
Growing, Darren J.
Doherty Applied Diploma of Permaculture Design,
(Education, Site Design, System Establishment & Implementation)
Permaculture Institute (1995) Permaculture
Design Certificate, Permaculture Institute (1993, 1995, 2001) Whole
Farm Planning Certificate (Train the Trainer), University of Melbourne (1995) permaculture designer
@ permaculture.biz a. 103 Casey St, East Bendigo, Victoria, Australia, 3550 p. 613 5444 1068 f. 613 5444 0621 -----Original Message----- Sounds
great Darren. There will be introductions to the new APT in all
regions. They are going to be named COWs (course outline/overview
workshops )and we will have smaller ones and yes you guessed it they are
CALFs. No risk that there will not be information, the only risk is that
one system or the other will act in an “exclusive” way. I
will continue to make it all inclusive but also to rigorously insure that the quality
of ATP is maintained at a high performance and ethical level and this may
appear exclusive at times but without the qualifications and proven
outcomes…. forget teaching APT. If you
have a Cert IV in Workplace Teaching and Assessment that’s great, if not
best to get one ASAP or wait till we can get Pc specific ones up and
running…I don’t see a good reason to wait really. Then the
next thing is to RPL to Cert IV in APT. Assessors will do that free for
first 6 months with only charge to the RTO for Admin (quite a significant fee I
may add to folk who trade in potatoes and eggs.) But we can’t
afford to work for more than 18 months for free to see this thing happen. I have
had calls about I did the PDC…I did this…I did that…now you
want me to pay for…. No I
don’t. Those who do not see the value should remain with the
original and well-functioning system. Those who realize the further
opportunities and those who saw the threat of Pc being taken over by
establishment rather than our own representative body can support us. -----Original Message----- Hi
Janet, Thanks
for the reply – as I expected you answered all the questions – you
are indeed a great teacher!! We had
Lisa and Bill Mollison stay over here in Bendigo the last few days and we
discussed this whole issue at length – with their perspective’s
mirroring yours. Naturally they are interested in seeing more information as to
the course (s) content and mechanics – as we all are. I expect
that there will be those (such as you and I) who will have feet in both camps
– especially those (such as myself) who have faith in the PDC (registered
with PI or not) and the PIL approved courses. As a
side note it was good to see both Lisa and Bill in good health, brimming with
ideas and a passion for each other and the future. Bill’s still as
naughty as ever………Lisa Heenan (my wife) and Bill made a heap
of Kim Chee – Lisa swearing never to take Bill shopping again!! We also
took them on a tour of the local Gravel Hill Permaculture Gardens which they
both enjoyed and thought were great (as they are!). The mere mention of a wild
paddock of Licorice put Bill into a state of joyous apoplexy – so off we
went and gathered a heap of huge roots and seed from this little known ½ acre
stand here in Bendigo (originally planted by Chinese Miners in the 1800’s
and now a stable monoculture). We’re
still enjoying the Kim Chee!! Cheers, Yours and
Growing, Darren J.
Doherty Applied Diploma of Permaculture Design,
(Education, Site Design, System Establishment & Implementation)
Permaculture Institute (1995) Permaculture
Design Certificate, Permaculture Institute (1993, 1995, 2001) Whole
Farm Planning Certificate (Train the Trainer), University of Melbourne (1995) permaculture designer
@ permaculture.biz a. 103 Casey St, East Bendigo, Victoria, Australia, 3550 p. 613 5444 1068 f. 613 5444 0621 -----Original Message----- Hi Darren, This is
my response to your question on the Oceania list. I sent it off to the
list a couple of days ago….I think and it hasn’t come up yet.
So I am sending direct to you. If it does not come up on the list maybe
you know how to make the response public. I don’t really understand
how the list works. Janet -----Original Message-----
Janet Millington miltech@bigpond.com Eumundi Crayfish Farm Permaculture Noosa (Pres) |
- [permaculture] FW: Income from Permaculture, permaculture.biz, 07/23/2003
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