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  • From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] civil society
  • Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:31:19 -0700 (PDT)

Aloha,

> This is an open query John, not a criticism. I don't quite understand. In
> some responses, you've talked about thinking in an inclusive manner,
> rather than exclusive. Then when it comes to definitions, you seem to
> change to an opposite tack. If there any situation that a particular
> definition might not apply to, then you seem to reject that definition.

I'm thinking in terms of vague vs. specific here, not inclusive vs.
exclusive.

> A definition or generalisation is mostly just a form of shorthand. Surely
> it doesn't need to apply to every possible situation to still have some
> usefulness.

I'm thinking the definition in question is *so* general that it's
applicable to almost every situation - including totalitarian governments,
etc. defining themselves as "civil society." So I don't see how it's very
useful.

> Just so long as users don't take it too seriously or become
> too pedantic about its application. Fuzzy logic I think the AI (artificial
> intelligence) people call it.

I don't think 'fuzzy logic' is the same as fuzzy thinking.

> How do you feel about that? Should definitions have an absoluteness about
> them?

I think in this case more specificity would be useful. I'm not sure what
you mean by absoluteness but I don't think that's what I'm after.

Any actual cultural design for 'civil society' intended for implementation
and based on that definition would either be specific enough to be useful,
or it wouldn't. That's what I mean when I say the definition is rather
'vague' for my liking. The definition by itself could fit a very
'non-civil society' as well as a 'civil' one.

This may all be simply semantic differences between us anyhow. I don't
need to pursue it any further.


John Schinnerer, MA
-------------------------
- Eco-Living -
Cultural & Ecological Designing
People - Place - Learning - Integration
john@eco-living.net
http://eco-living.net




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