permaculture

[johnny gregory <johnnyg8@bellsouth.net>]

Thanks, Lawrence for your poplar and other good suggestions.

  I'd planned that any trees will be laid out near or amongst veggies so the
sunlight would splay through- but hadn't arrived at the orientation yet.
Thanks for the instant answer! Planting the trees near a berm is a good
idea, too. Here's what I'd planned for paulownias (now maybe poplars)...

  I bought a 1/2 V trencher which attaches to my farm tractor's PTO. Its
design is so that one can create trenches which are about a foot wide, a
foot deep, in the shape of a half V ( there is a 45 degree and an upright
slope to the trench it digs). To catch and redirect water to shade and
orchard trees we'd drive the tractor in a direction so the slope of the
trench (45-degree side) is aiming uphill, and the cascading water hits the
upright wall of the trench and then goes wherever you want it downhill.

  When googling "water harvesting" I found an African site which had lots of
water catchment berms used for growing trees. I thought I'd adapt that
concept in an easier way and create a diamond pattern on my sloping crop
fields using the half V trencher instead of so many berms, like a cocked
tic-tac-toe board or a giant piece of graph paper on a slight rotation off
alignment with the slope. Thus we could plant all shade and orchard trees in
the intersections and all extra unabsorbed water in that 'quadrant' would be
channelled by the surrouding half V trenches directly to the trees, thus
multiplying the use of rain- as if several times the rainfall had occurred.

  Berming is great yet the trenches in a diamond pattern might obviate the
labor needed to create so many. I figure we can merely point the tractor and
drive it diagonally all the way across a slope ( on a slight swale offset
like keylining uses ) pulling along the rotating half V-trencher (with the
trench's high side downhill) , then do a parallel channel say 24-30' away
(for the spacing of trees)... and finally come back with angled trenches
creating a diamond pattern.

  This should allow us easy access later to each crop area for driving in
equipment and working the soil with spader or seeder or various implements
(we're talking about a total of several growing acres- not a small area
which could be done by hand). We can also drive in the tractor with a handy
pan or trailer attached for harvesting crops. Repairs to water-harvesting
trenches can be as simple as driving the trencher again periodically. We may
use enzyme soil hardeners and harden the soil in the trenches, making them
like natural pipes or french drains.

  One big berm at the north end of the field certainly could also be created
with poplars and other trees planted there as a windbreak. Lawrence, the
roses are a great idea for wildlife refuge. I already have a big stack of
pines and roots in a gulley in the middle of the crop fields where
groundhogs perch and keep a lookout over 'their' fields. I guess we'll have
a separate garden and orchard for deer and groundhogs to keep them as happy
neighbors.

 Lawrence, thanks again for your expert suggestions on planting cooler
weather crops just south of the north-placed row of trees for summer growing
of cool weather crops! That sounds very logical to help keep them cooler
with a little shade.

  I don't yet know what an eleagnus is but I'll learn. I know you mentioned
they'd add nitrogen.

   My overall plan is to leave vegetable and herb/flower crop access so we
can grow and periodically turn under nitrogen-fixing green manures- cover
crops (either turned under to a shallow depth with a Howard Rotavator or
deeper with a spader which 'double digs' mechanically). In some areas we may
alternately flail mow (like giving a close haircut), leaving the cover
crops' roots and subsoil intact and do some no-till planting right on top of
the cover crops. We'll try to use the best of permaculture, biodynamics and
organic gardening in a small farm operation. I bought a 300-gallon boom
sprayer with boom arms which can stretch out up to 20' wide, plus a hand
hose sprayer attachment for spraying of liquid organic fertilizers, seaweed,
humates, enzymes, mycorrhizal fungi, etc. onto and around our orchard trees
and crops. We'll also use a drop spreader for adding unburnt limestone and
other mineral supplements, and a conical seed spreader for other nutrients.

  Lawrence, your other suggestion for the poplars is also great:

I would interplant them with cedars, eleagnus, blueberries, comfrey with
clover and low weeds for
ground cover within deep mulch.



  Mark Ludwig's suggestion will also be taken and is appreciated:

"I would evaluate the shade VS the wind break you pick up with the trees
which can help veggie production.  In other words thin or prune to balance
the needs of your site."

This comment on poplars' longevity makes me wonder what other more permanent
trees could be suggested.?? I'd think some poplars would get 40-60 years old
or more. That should suffice fine for seasonal vegetable gardens. Permanence
is of course the best.


Mark wrote: "These poplar won't last all that long, I would
start looking into replacements and get them planted sooner rather than
later."

Lawrence, If we transplanted some poplars from the forest, at what time of
year and height is best? Thanks a lot, all.

Your friend in NC,

Johnny Gregory





> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:43:26 -0800
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Organization: http://market-farming.com  --  Venaura Farm
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Re: permaculture digest, Vol 1 #392 - 5 msgs
> Reply-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> 
> johnny gregory wrote:
>> Thanks, Treesa and Lawrence for your insights into Paulownias. I have many
>> poplars in my forest- I don't know whether or not they're 'tulip' poplars. 
>> I
>> guess I can get a book and go out into the woods and see.
> 
> In Piedmont NC they are Tulip Poplars.
> 
>> Would you permaculture experts and enthusiasts think these big tall trees
>> about 30' apart would be of any help amidst about 5-10 acres of vegetable
> 
> You could Poplars 20' apart, even less and they would do well. Plant a 
> windrow
> in an EW line North of growing beds that need shelter from N or NW winds and
> to 
> extend Fall growing season; and use the South side of them for shade/cool
> crops 
> in Summer for the same purpose. Interplant them with eleagnus (will provide
> extra N) and roses for wildlife cover and extra wind-protection and shade.
> I would plant them near a berm or swale for additional moisture, behind it 
> if
> the terrain is a south-facing slope, in front of it if it is north facing.
> 
> Poplars will be good for bees as they provide a lot of nectar in Spring. 
> Very
> dark poplar honey is a rare treat.
> 
>> and herb and flower crops? Would some shade help with moisture containment
>> or am I 'barking up the wrong tree'? Sounds feasible to me (intercropping)
>> although I've never seen it done. We could always prune any trees to get a
>> certain amount of shading it seems.
>> 
>> Your friend,
>> 
>> Johnny Gregory
>> Greensboro, NC