permaculture

[mIEKAL aND <dtv@mwt.net>]

there's enough demand for paper, even in this "paperless" society that we live
in...  mIEKAL

Carla McAuley wrote:

> Speaking of Kudzu, has anyone explored kudzu as a cash crop in areas where
> it is already a nuisance?  Is there enough demand for kuzu, the high-priced
> macrobiotic and oriental soup and gravy thickener?
> Carla McAuley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-admin@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-admin@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of
> UrthMomma@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:07 PM
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] walking away is silly
>
> In a message dated 4/17/02 12:35:31 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> mpludwig@facstaff.wisc.edu writes:
>
> > The hardest part of PC to swallow for me is this notion of designs one
> just
> >  walks away from that are supposed to continue developing into some kind
> of
> >  paradise.  Given invasive species (exotic and native), wandering wild
> >  critters, diseases etc. etc. this seems a little far fetched in most
> >  situations.  Further it really limits what one may choose to place in a
> >  design.  Black Locust, for example, makes a nice addition to a grazing
> farm
> >  to provide the finest fence posts available, but would over run the place
> >  if one walked away.  I have seen far too much good farm land overrun with
> >  brush and garbage trees in the name of "preservation" to believe we just
> >  get to step back at some point.  Even the first people around here set
> the
> >  place on fire pretty regularly.  We are part of the package, like it or
> not.
> >  Mark
> >
>
> I was wondering what kind of magic dust the big name permaculture gurus had
> that didn't make mulches break down and pioneer species not grow up through
> them.  Glad to hear the normal rules of ecological succession still apply.
> Mulches are still quite useful, but they do break down, wash away, blow
> away,
> etc.  Renewing mulch layers is a constant battle, especially scrounging or
> harvesting the free stuff  that is not loaded with weed seeds -- finding
> cooperative tree trimmers, non herbicided grass clippings, or mowers that
> break if you look at them crosseyed.
>
> Choice of species is a challenge : for an invasive species you need to
> introduce something that is voracious as the invasive species, such as using
> goats to tame a pasture overgrown with blackberries.
>
> Look around you and observe -- what is the mature local ecosystem for a
> given
> land form ? Also, look for  areas that have been abandoned for 20-30 years
> to
> see what exotics and invasive species survive and thrive. I know what to
> expect in my area of the US Midwest - given an area with sufficient
> rainfall,a mature hardwood forest will result with certain species
> dominating
> depending on ridge or valley moisture patterns. To create a grassland,
> regular grazing or mowing must occur. What long term impact introducing
> hazels as a shrub or understory tree will have is uncertain, especially due
> to spread of disease and changing precipitation patterns. It would be nice
> to
> reintroduce chestnuts but finding the cultivar that will thrive in a given
> situation takes experimentation.
>
> Guilds are a fine concept, but a local ecosytem usually has its own ideas
> about what is suitable species for a niche you may have created. I've got an
> area where I'd like have the hardy kiwi as the vining layer, but the native
> maypop seems to be winning. It's not just letting the native species fight
> it
> out, as some invasives --  rig the  game-- kudzu as one of the worst
> examples.
>
> Mark, you are so right, there is no landscape you can just walk away from
> and
> expect a paradise. Ecological succession has its own rules and we keep
> throwing in exotics/invasives to change the game on each run.
>
> Sara in IN
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