permaculture

["Carla McAuley" <carlamcauley@earthlink.net>]

Speaking of Kudzu, has anyone explored kudzu as a cash crop in areas where
it is already a nuisance?  Is there enough demand for kuzu, the high-priced
macrobiotic and oriental soup and gravy thickener?
Carla McAuley

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-admin@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-admin@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of
UrthMomma@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:07 PM
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [permaculture] walking away is silly


In a message dated 4/17/02 12:35:31 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
mpludwig@facstaff.wisc.edu writes:

> The hardest part of PC to swallow for me is this notion of designs one
just
>  walks away from that are supposed to continue developing into some kind
of
>  paradise.  Given invasive species (exotic and native), wandering wild
>  critters, diseases etc. etc. this seems a little far fetched in most
>  situations.  Further it really limits what one may choose to place in a
>  design.  Black Locust, for example, makes a nice addition to a grazing
farm
>  to provide the finest fence posts available, but would over run the place
>  if one walked away.  I have seen far too much good farm land overrun with
>  brush and garbage trees in the name of "preservation" to believe we just
>  get to step back at some point.  Even the first people around here set
the
>  place on fire pretty regularly.  We are part of the package, like it or
not.
>  Mark
>

I was wondering what kind of magic dust the big name permaculture gurus had
that didn't make mulches break down and pioneer species not grow up through
them.  Glad to hear the normal rules of ecological succession still apply.
Mulches are still quite useful, but they do break down, wash away, blow
away,
etc.  Renewing mulch layers is a constant battle, especially scrounging or
harvesting the free stuff  that is not loaded with weed seeds -- finding
cooperative tree trimmers, non herbicided grass clippings, or mowers that
break if you look at them crosseyed.

Choice of species is a challenge : for an invasive species you need to
introduce something that is voracious as the invasive species, such as using
goats to tame a pasture overgrown with blackberries.

Look around you and observe -- what is the mature local ecosystem for a
given
land form ? Also, look for  areas that have been abandoned for 20-30 years
to
see what exotics and invasive species survive and thrive. I know what to
expect in my area of the US Midwest - given an area with sufficient
rainfall,a mature hardwood forest will result with certain species
dominating
depending on ridge or valley moisture patterns. To create a grassland,
regular grazing or mowing must occur. What long term impact introducing
hazels as a shrub or understory tree will have is uncertain, especially due
to spread of disease and changing precipitation patterns. It would be nice
to
reintroduce chestnuts but finding the cultivar that will thrive in a given
situation takes experimentation.

Guilds are a fine concept, but a local ecosytem usually has its own ideas
about what is suitable species for a niche you may have created. I've got an
area where I'd like have the hardy kiwi as the vining layer, but the native
maypop seems to be winning. It's not just letting the native species fight
it
out, as some invasives --  rig the  game-- kudzu as one of the worst
examples.

Mark, you are so right, there is no landscape you can just walk away from
and
expect a paradise. Ecological succession has its own rules and we keep
throwing in exotics/invasives to change the game on each run.

Sara in IN
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