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[permaculture] Bill Mollison "Seeds for Change" Interview
- From: "Darren Doherty" <ozfx@bigpond.com>
- To: "Permaculture List" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: [permaculture] Bill Mollison "Seeds for Change" Interview
- Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:35:44 +1000
Hello Everyone,
I've been away from the list for a few months now and came back last night.
Looks like there has been a fair bit of "flow" over that time - as I went
through the archives and caught up on the various threads going round. I just
wanted to have offer my two bobs worth on a few of the issues raised over this
time.
I read with particular interest the "Seed's for Change" interview with Bill
Mollison in New Mexico last year. I just wanted to clear up a part of this
interview where I was the subject and straighten out some of what Bill
said:
One of my students married permaculture to his computer and he
has programs that let him pull down properties from archives kept by the state. He can plan all the water for the farm and tell you how much it will be to make your dams and how many thousands of gallons or mega-liters you’ve got in each one; how much your fence will be; he’ll plant all your trees for you; he’ll plant them on mounds; he’ll put mouseproof and rabbitproof collars around them all. He invests, on behalf of people buying farms, probably a hundred million dollars a year at present. What a typo!! All of this is accurate apart from the amount of
money that we invest on behalf of our clients...however, the potential dollar
value of what we have done for our clients will easily exceed the figure that
Bill mentioned - perhaps that is what he means. Also at times I think (as does
my wife!) that I'm married to my computers and not the
permaculture....
So he does hundreds of farms; he’s always
got 20 or 30 going. He’s got a full-time surveyor; And then he’s got a big nursery backing that up and very large teams of planters. So he does a lot. He’s the future of permaculture. The near future. The present of permaculture. So, in his short life, in Victoria, after I trained
him (he doesn’t have a degree or anything), he has put in more forests and more farms than anybody in the history of Australia and he has decided the future of hundreds of thousands of acres of land. We've designed and consulted to on average about 2 (new) clients a
week for the last ten years - without many breaks. What Bill means by hundreds
of thousands of acres I don't know - perhaps he's alluding to the overall whole
of catchment effects - definitely not in area - its probably closer to 50
000 odd acres of plans and less than half of that in development.
And that’s how I’d have all my students go.
That's the challenge to us all. What are we doing with what we've
learned and how are we applying what we learn each day. Bill wasn't my
only training. In fact the course I did with him inspired me further as a
designer - it taught me little or nothing in how to get out and maintain a
business - to operate a consultancy - or how to establish forests of all shapes
and forms. The thinking framework - well that's another matter - that's the
intrinsic nature of permaculture to me - look outside of the box and run the
other way from the mob.....This hurts sometimes - I know this perhaps better
than many - but the experience is worth the ride. Driving and flying as
much as I do I can see that there is not much risk of market saturation with
people like myself. The communication networks need to be kept alive though -
that's the great risk to our movement - despite the best and excellent efforts
of the PIL people and this lists' web master. Its hard though when so many of us
are on the edge all the time...(some wouldn't be anywhere else - just for the
effect!)
It was interesting reading Russ's measured response to this interview as it is a reflection of the view that many hold of Bill's work - particularly his teaching and narrative/interviews - where his style is distinctive in its comparison to his written work. As a mate of his, and having co-taught (with Janet Millington) the last two Permaculture Institute courses with Bill, and having been a student of his back in 1995 at my 2nd PDC, I have witnessed first hand the oft discussed use of creative and comical vernacular and colloquialism in conversation and the classroom. The effect of this to some (of our students) has been of bewilderment, great upset, illusion crashing and most of all sore abs. The stories of cannibalism in particular have a fairly predictable effect on some students - where the seemingly poor taste is too much (I've liked all the Russians I've met!!). At
the January 2002 course his four diverse performances (out of 17 performances in
total) at the end of course concert were to die for and had some of our students
incapable of containing themselves and having to leave the room as he was just
too funny. Our student's feedback responses centred on the educative value of
Bill's "embellished vernacular", to coin a phrase, and the "shock value" as one
English student put it, and that this typified some sectors of the older Aussie
story tellers' enigmatic way of not letting a good story get in the way......One
thing is for sure: when you go past the bullshit and understand
the never ending metaphors you always remember the story. And the
stories continue through our community and beyond - so powerful that in general
they reach out further than the written word. Isn't this the durable and
effective neo-tribal way of interactive and intergenerational communication that
we in PC try and promote?? Perhaps I'm unique but poorly told stories don't
get to stay on my hard drive I'm afraid.
Cheers,
Yours
and Growing,
Darren Doherty
Australia Felix Permaculture
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- [permaculture] Bill Mollison "Seeds for Change" Interview, Darren Doherty, 04/16/2002
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