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  • From: Mark <mpludwig@facstaff.wisc.edu>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Broadminded thinking?
  • Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:58:23 -0600

Thanks for your comments. I did put this up to sir the pot a little. Ideally of course we reduce the need for annual crops like beans. A few comments follow...
At 05:30 PM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:
Setting aside the issues of genetic manipulation

I worry about this with species that have close weed relatives like rape (cannola) I also was highly opposed to the initial release of GMO crops, but have accepted some of them as OK (RR beans) while still being quite opposed to others (BT anything, any micro-organism). These things need to be looked at case by case IMO.

and runoff pollution of
excess glyphosphates, yes, the farmer uses a lot less fuel with Roundup ready
seed : one trip to spray, one to plant and one to harvest. Forty years ago it
took two or three trips to prepare the seedbed, one to plant, cultivate
three times, then harvest. Planting in last years' crop residue has
dramatically reduced tillage and helps conserve topsoil. Roundup ready
soybeans have "clean fields", and increased yields, but how much energy is
conserved when all of the processes involved in the extraction, manufacture,
handling of manufacturing byproduts/waste and transportation are included ?

Inherent in annual commodity ag; I think we need a local foodshed paradigm, this is only possible if people actively seek to consume local products; a somewhat daunting task....

An analysis of this question would make a good subject for an agricultural
economist.

Agreed.

Organic fertilizers should be of a local source where ever possible if you
are truly working towards a "permanent" , "sustainable" agriculture. Granted,
some minerals may need to be imported, but nitrogen is a local source
nutrient -- plant legumes if you can't process dried forage thru livestock.
Again, look at the total energy budget issues.

N is the easy one, the rest is quite a challenge; though it is quite amazing what gets disposed of by industry (watch out for heavy metals of course). Keeping pH neutral or lower helps with trace mineral availability, and of course good rotations can increase availability of minerals.

I must agree that using glyphosphates to burn down turf can be useful,
however, some additional cultivation of the soil is required to make a
seedbed, as generally soil under turf in clay soils is compacted .

You can follow on with narrow strip tillage. Clay can be a challenge. Supplementing Ca, S and OM is quite helpful. The trouble with tillage on clay is that once you compact it (esp while too wet) it's really like a brick. Sure like that CEC though....


Currently, it seems to take less human hours to turn turf into garden space
using glyphosphates, but also consider the sheet composting/mulching method,
which requires forethought at the end of the prior growing season and adds to
humus and soil building.

I working on living mulches, white clover and black medic. Hopefully the glyphosphate is used infrequently.

Glyphosphates are probably best suited to a limited role in eradication of
"noxious weeds", when you can't use goats.

Sara in IN

Oh I'm a real sinner, I'll even break out the 2-4-D and garlon for the real pesky weeds.

Mark P. Ludwig
Poultry Research Lab
University of Wisconsin -Madison
608-262-1730 WK
608-846-7125 HM





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