permaculture

[bob jacobs <soilfirst@tao.ca>]

My my, I think I need to explain myself again.  I don't think some people
got what I was trying to get at with my last post.  When I spoke of the
need to quantify yield I was speaking of International Development Work.  I
was speaking of working with farmers in the global south.  I was speaking
of working with people who have little to no land, or with people who can
literally loose their livelyhoods and face death or malnitrition if a
project does not work out.

In reference to this, it is important to have real facts and figures, and
to be able to convince development planners (who often do more harm than
good) of the value of PC systems.    Otherwise we're toying with people's
lives.

In the First world, if we get a substandard harvest, most of us can still
cart down to the supermarket.  This is not an option in Ethiopia, for
instance, where I was working this year.

Moreover, I agree with Toby's explination of PC systems that work.  They
are geat and 98% effective in convincing people of the value of such
systems (as he says, non-farmer types).  But to convince people in much
more harsh suituations to use PC, we need to be sure of the bennefits of
the switchover-- namely, we neeed figures.

Les (who responded to my post below)  makes a statement-- "if a farmer
doesn't want to operate in a sustainable way with the
>environment so what? does that make his measure correct? we need to get our
>heads out of clouds and work out why we are here."

I have to disagree.  PC was imitiated becauseof the ecological destruction
brought upon the earth my unsustainable farming.  It is a response to the
collapse of environments.  In my view, to practice PC is more than to tend
simply to your garden.  It is a responsability to convince peopel to seek
sustainable livelyhoods.  In the case of farmers who are typically
traditional or are loathe to switch to PC practices, having figures helps
do this.  Moreover, having figures that compare the output of a PC system
with it's imputs (little) junxtaposed over a monocrop systems in/outputs
would be really valuable for this.

I need to make one more reply to Les.  Believe me, I do think it is
valuable that your PC design allows you to cut on water and garbage.  My
home does the same, and I hve been using it for 3 years as an educational
center (see The Urban Wilds Project in the Permaculture Activist from about
6 months ago).    I definately am not involved in PC for the riches (In
fact Im not sure if I have ever been paid for any of my PC education or
consulting work) of the monetary kind.  When I said in my post "yield is
important" the we need to convince those with money of the value of the PC
system I didn't mean that I was in it for the riches.  I simply meant that
people who have money and are third world development planners do have
clout and do have power.  If figures can get these poeple to be convinced
of a sustainable system (especially if we are to export it to the third
world) then by all means, they're valuable.

Nuff said.
Tim

>like your signature line says 'teach a man to fish and he will eat forever'
>isn't that sustainability isn't that what pc is realy all about or ahve i
>simpilified it too much?
>
>to me if i can live off my property at a certain level and still leave
>maximum space for habitat isn't that true sustainability? isn't that what pc
>is realy all about if you discard the yuppy stuff?
>
>if a farmer doesn't want to operate in a sustainable way with the
>environment so what? does that make his measure correct? we need to get our
>heads out of clouds and work out why we are here.
>
>someone said show me pc at work, well if i live in suburbia and and decrease
>my waste output to land fill to 2 wheely bins a year instead of filling 2
>bins a week is that what yo want??? if i reduce my water usage to a minimum
>is that waht you want or don't you realy know what you want because in the
>final wash up pc CAN'T be sold,  or are you on cloud nine voicing your
>opinion with big meaningless words. you only want to prove pc works for
>monetary gains to me that isn't what pc is all about.
>
>the thing that gets me is there is way too many people out there involved in
>pc for riches of the monetary kind and stuff the environment.
>
>my opinion
>
>len
>
>
>>From: bob jacobs <soilfirst@tao.ca>
>>Reply-To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
>>To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
>>snipped
>
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"we must convert farming into one of the most honored, promoted and
appreciated professions."    ----Fidel Castro.
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---------------------------------------
"we must convert farming into one of the most honored, promoted and
appreciated professions."    ----Fidel Castro.
---------------------------------------