permaculture

[1earth permaculture <permaculture1@start.com.au>]

georg wrote:
>am i getting confused or is this discussion getting confused? i think
it was not the problem that she only taught by word of mouth, but some
people on the list opposed her attempt to exercise power over the
information even after it left her "ownership" ... please clarify this
for me, ..

Thanks Georg - I'm just trying to put the original statement and
meaning forward again - a simple story about a woman teaching as is
her centuries old custom, using plants not pills - before it was taken
off on a tangent about 'hoarding knowledge' by Mr Grayson and others.

Lawrence reposted:
>So the "rest" of us have to take the blame for the Monsanto types and
be deprived of potentially lifesaving/life enhancing aboriginal
knowledge of herbal medicine?

So, Blame the Monsanto types, not the aborigines!

Lawrence reposted:
>A simple and direct solution would be to connect your friend to the
Herb Research Foundation...

To which I've already replied that she doesn't use the internet,
doesn't even have a phone, and has a well-founded mistrust of
institutions (even obviously ethical ones like the one you mention)
who have failed her people in the past. She's not about to be referred
to www dot org, sorry - good idea though :)

Toby wrote:
>All I'm saying. Marcus, is that I prefer to act differently from the
way that aboriginal woman does.

To which I'm sure she'd say she'd prefer to act differently from you.
She's a half a world away from an American white city male, and I'm
sure she prefers it that way too :)  That's not to be taken personally
Toby, I'm just stating her case in her absence.

>You're so angry with my post that you've badly distorted or
misunderstood nearly every sentence you've commented on.

I'm not angry with you Toby, I said that I'd understand if an
indigenous person would be angry with you when you posted that they
weren't 'caring for people, or sharing the surplus'.

I used your postings to illustrate that we should be understanding of
other's teaching styles and customs, mainly because you made the
quantum leap of comparing an old aboriginal woman to a drug
corporation, below:

>>"If a drug corporation withheld access to a new and promising
medication because they might lose control over it, we'd be screaming
bloody murder. But when an indigenous person does the same, we bow our
heads in respect."

Toby wrote:

>I am not sure what "by mouth" has to do with it.

I reiterate that she is using her centuries old custom of
learning/teaching by word of mouth. She's not 'hoarding knowledge' or
is refusing to answer questions - on the contary, she's teaching with
what she has.

>>> Toby says: "it seems like a claim that her people are more worthy
and right-minded than others are. Who is wise enough to decide when
unknown others are "ready" for knowledge?"

and Toby wrote:
>But notice that I wrote "unknown others." I try not to judge people I
don't know...

But my point is that you, and others on the list are in fact judging
this woman with your own white city value system.

Also, she includes the Monsanto types in the 'unknown others' and that
is why she is teaching the knowledge at grass roots level.

Toby again:
>But to withhold information about a plant from
 someone capable of using it is not in the same category; that
involves a moral or cultural judgment.

That's right! She's placing a cultural worth of a part of her tribal
teaching. And she's NOT withholding the knowledge as I keep saying :)

>>Toby : ... those evil drug companies .... To simply judge all of
them as evil as you (and perhaps that woman) seem to be doing, and to
wish all of them harm, seems foolish.

Hey whooa! Another quantum leap there Toby - LOL - I didn't say nor
imply that drug companies were evil, nor do I think it, nor do I wish
them harm.  Who's foolish? :)

As for the rest of your posting, at least we're thinking about how we
place judgements on others, particularly from another culture - which
I'm sure is one of the lessons in this whole discussion.

Bill wrote:

>> The Australian Government spends more on its indigenous population
than it does on Defence or its  War Veteran community.  Lets not
presume she has no access to anything, least of all support for her
wishes.

Maybe this year, but what about the last 200 years? Look at the mess
created by whites that has to be cleaned up - health, education,
stolen generations, housing, bigotry, etc. 

She also talks about 'latant racism' which is an underlying attitude
in the white society - it may not be 'blatant racism' like calling
them names and apartheid.  It is latant by begrudging them what little
support they are finally receiving, not even saying 'sorry' for the
past because of possible litigation, or even condescending saying "I
support a treaty and reconciliation" but then doing nothing at all in
you own life to live up to it.

Marcus.


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