permaculture

["Rene and Lorraine van Raders" <rvraders@tpgi.com.au>]

Hi David
Thought provoking post.

> Mollison's angry branding of different green groups as ecofascists had
> (until this weekend) looked to me to be inflammatory and
> counter-productive.  I asked myself "How can he lash out at those who
> should be Pc allies?"  I had the attitude critiqued by Lee Flier:

Two sides to every argument... the green movement can be very blinkered (I
think they've got it wrong... but does that mean they have?).   They are
our actual or potential allies (as is everyone).. so care should be taken
.. are we being rude to awaken them or to relieve our frustration?


> >From some comments I've seen on this list and others in the PC
> Activist, it appears there are a lot of people who seem to sum up the
> Grumpy pattern by saying (I'm paraphrasing):  "Well, Bill Mollison
> obviously has a lot of great ideas, but he's just a quaint little old man
> from a different era whose social skills need refining, and WE can do
> better in that arena."  It's a way of derailing what is actually a very
> important part of Mollison's (and others') philosophy and is responsible
> for much of his effectiveness: his anger.
> "
> 

Formidable.. not quaint surely.  Rude?   I feel rude gossiping about him..
do we need to?  Ok his anger can be effective, but likewise it can also be
ineffective.. perhaps a diversity of approaches is called for.

> This weekend I attended a regional "Landcare Forum".  Landcare is an
> extensive, national, grassroots, volunteer organisation that does
fantastic
> work restoring degraded landscapes planting local trees.  To my surprise,
I
> discovered they can also accurately be described as ecofascists.
> Q.  How can a group of green, ecologically aware, educated and motivated
> people also be fascists?
> A.  By being preoccupied with destruction.  Through their love for
nature,
> these people have developed a cult of weed hatred.  At any cost
> (labour-herbicide) the weed/enemy has to destroyed.
> 
> The War on Weeds had been declared and, like other war efforts e.g.
WoIraq,
> WoDrugs, dissenters have to be denounced, ridiculed or ignored.
> 

I'm in a landcare group... members of local green groups and landcare are
often miles apart and bitter enemies.  Landcare is often a farmer pressure
group, but with all members feeling they care for the land.   As you say
their paradigm is usually very mainstream... thus organics is for looneys
and doesn't work in a modern world.  Herbicides are necessary... no
understanding of ecology.  But some wonderful practical land
management/farming experience.

> Some permaculturists would respond to this situation by saying.
> "These people are on the path, they will get there eventually, you cannot
> push them"
> 

Yes they need pushing.. but often if the pushing is done by someone they
don't respect they won't even notice.  My policy has been to sit quiet for
four years... now they're talking to me and finally starting to listen...
but they are from such a completely different background it is not always
easy to communicate.

> If Bill was there, I am sure he would have ignored his own advice on not
> wasting your efforts with people who don't want to hear the message and
> given a biting and angry critique.
> 
> Another (repressed?) option that I and a few other permies employed was
to
> get angry internally and snipe from the sidelines indicating there were
> some unbelievers.

Mmmmm, I think you need to really know what you're talking about
(especially understanding what they are thinking / understand what life is
like on their farm).  I'm still learning and often biting my tongue (angry
at the folly of the general population), but basically the landcare farmers
are just nice people with a different viewpoint (I can't stay angry with
them).



> 
> How dangerous are ecofascists?  Very.  "Earthcarers" are a large and
> influential group.  They look set to link with herbicide companies and
Govt
> Ag Depts to come up with a formula for future farming:-  farms + some
> native trees = ecologically sustainable farming.  Affluent countries have
> set in place policies that they will be green/sustainable.  Within the
next
> few years these policies WILL be achieved.  Governments cannot function
> without their policies in place.  A best case scenario is that the
policies
> will result in a dull lime-green brand of sustainability.  The worst case
> scenario is that efforts in the name of sustainability will push us in
the
> wrong direction.
> 
> Well-meaning, concerned citizens are joining green groups whose narrow
> focus may make them irrational.  In this, I would even include
anti-genetic
> engineering, anti-biocide, .pro-wilderness etc.  groups.  Then there are
> the green grass roots groups sponsored by multinationals...  Successes by
> narrow green lobbies may produce a patchwork of green and pseudo-green
> policy/practise such that it will be less workable that the current
> mish-mash.
> 

Yes, I agree... but how come we're right and they're not.  I mean I know in
my heart we're right, but don't they too.  Perhaps it all boils down to
allowing diversity and not being to strident about having the truth.  Pc is
a great system but is it the only truth?  Dull lime green politics aren't
going to change much, just add more red tape... but showing by example
works... so I'm planning to make more working models (within agriculture
and outside it).


> Permaculture needs to loudly proclaim its identity and follow Bill's lead
> to challenge
> stupidity.  This will often appear angry and often get an angry response.

Yes, we should be seen, not hiding like mice... but we can be an elephant
that people respect and appreciate, not necessarily an angry bull.   Sorry,
if some of this doesn't sound right.. really just thinking aloud.... I'm
confused, but it's getting clearer.

Cheers Rene