North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Richard Moyer <ramoyer@gmail.com>]

Betsy,
Michael Dossett is our expert on things Rubus, particularly origins
and genetics of brambles, what's native and which are hybrids, which
are naturalized from other places, etc.

You are right, if the torus (white core) stays with the berry it's a
blackberry, if stays on plant it's a raspberry, hence the name 'black
cap'.

Black raspberry stems are covered with a film which makes them silver
in appearance.  This is easily rubbed off.  Also, these raspberries
tend to grow long stems that touch the ground at the tips and root
again.  The thorns tend to be less pronounced.  The stems are round,
whereas blackberry stems often have ridges or can be somewhat square,
at least the 'wild' ones I have been cutting and burning today.

Black raspberries also tend to prefer partial shade, whereas
blackberries can tolerate being in the open more, but that depends on
how hot your area is.  Where I have been working today on the edge of
a meadow, they are together at the wooded edge, with blackberries more
out into the pasture.

If only Multiflora Rose had fruit like either of those two!
Richard Moyer
SW VA
Out to burn more brambles.


"How interesting. I had learned that our blackberries were naturalized
plants of European/ central Asian origin. Sure enough, when I check on
the http://plants.usda.gov site, they are listed as native to the lower
48.  It had made sense to me that these were naturalized, as they are
quite a nuisance here.  They quickly colonize disturbed areas and
pastures. They are hard to eradicate as if you leave just a bit of
viable root, they quickly resprout. They tend to form dense, thorny
thickets that even our abundant deer avoid. They have small, black
misshapen fruits, only a few drupes typically fill out. The fruits taste
terrible, they are very bitter.

To the best of my knowledge I have never seen a black raspberry here,
but I will keep an eye out now.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I functionally differentiate the two by
noting if the fruit pulls away from the core it is a raspberry, if the
ripe fruit retains the white core when picked, it is a blackberry.

Any other ID hints? The leaves seem very similar...."

Betsy Hilborn
7a NC