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nafex - Re: [NAFEX] chemical vs organic

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Chronological Thread  
  • From: Road's End Farm <organic87@frontiernet.net>
  • To: dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com, North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] chemical vs organic
  • Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:40:34 -0400


On Jun 16, 2009, at 10:15 AM, <dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com> wrote:

<x-tad-smaller>The question is not organic vs. chemical or chemical vs. organic since organic growers do use chemicals such as Bt.  
</x-tad-smaller>

Every substance is chemical, which is why most organic growers use "conventional farming" to mean methods not considered organic production. (As organic grows, we may eventually need to change that term also.)

<x-tad-smaller>It is the toxin from the soil bacteria </x-tad-smaller><x-tad-smaller>Bacillus thuringiensis</x-tad-smaller><x-tad-smaller>. In 1997 Bt was the  most heavily used pesticide on organic farms.  
</x-tad-smaller>

"Most heavily used" is misleading unless the actual use is known. "Most heavily" was still far less than the use of Bt currently by conventional growers using Bt-producing crops. Bt as used by organic growers was spot applied in a form that broke down quickly. Bt as currently used by conventional growers is present continuously, expressed in all cells of the plant, all season long, over far more acreage than organic growers ever used it on.

<x-tad-smaller>The real question that is typically overlooked is, toxic vs. non-toxic.  For example:</x-tad-smaller>
<x-tad-smaller>Nicotine, one of the more toxic organic insecticides, has a rat LD50 (lethal dose in 50% of animals tested) of 55mg/kg. The synthetic insecticide, imidacloprid, has a rat LD50 of 425mg/kg, making imidacloprid nearly 10 times less toxic than nicotine. Yet nicotine is "organic".   Rotenone has an LD50 of 60-1500 mg/kg and is more acutely toxic than Malathion or Sevin. Cats are highly susceptible to pyrethrum. But Rotenone is "organic".   </x-tad-smaller>

Rotenone has not been acceptable for use in organic production since the Federal standards went into effect, and was controversial within the organic community for some time before that. Nicotine has not been acceptable for use in organic production for much longer -- I have never seen a published organic standard that did not prohibit nicotine (and arsenic, before somebody brings that up) and I have been farming organically since the 1970's. Pyrethrum is a restricted material for organic production; among the things the certifier would be looking at in restricted material use is whether the specific use by that grower is likely to cause problems for non-target organisms. (Natural pyrethrum is commonly used in flea products meant for cats. Overdose can indeed cause problems; but what you're really supposed to avoid entirely for cats is synthetic permethrins, which are forbidden for organic production.)

I wish that people who are criticizing organic would read current standards first. It is no more reasonable to criticize organic production based on recommends from 1950's publications than it is to criticize conventional as if conventional growers had never figured out that crop rotation is a good idea after all.

--Rivka
Finger Lakes NY; zone 5 mostly



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