I buy some fertilizer blends that contain bone meal. I’m not
above blending my own supplemented compost; but what I’m trying to do is generally
build up the very poor soil at our new house. I’m using compost and broad-based
organic fertilizers, then customizing areas for plants with things like
cottonseed meal and peat.
~ Stephen
From:
nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On
Behalf Of Richard Harrison
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:35 PM
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] chemical vs organic
Do you buy bone meal or use something
else?
Richard Harrison, NW FL
--- On Fri, 6/12/09, Stephen Sadler <Docshiva@Docshiva.org>
wrote:
From: Stephen Sadler <Docshiva@Docshiva.org>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] chemical vs organic
To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'"
<nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 4:30 PM
I
agree about Donna’s letter!!
Potatoes
really do love that cottonseed meal. I can get organic, but it’s very
hard to find elsewhere. Since you’re not certified, why not use
it? I’m comfortable with it vs. conventional chemicals. I’m not
certified either, but I’ve heard it mentioned that I might be certifiable…
~
Stephen
From:
nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On
Behalf Of Richard Harrison
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:38 AM
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] chemical vs organic
Thank you for this amazing article ! I
thoroughly enjoyed it! I chuckled through most of it---mainly because it is
SO true. You should be a journalist somewhere--telling it like it is!
I think the first chuckle was when you said
that Sevin is considered one of the 4 major food groups. I rolled on that
one! There's SO much truth to that. I live in NW FL and understand
you--loud and clear.
As for the gulf between organic enthusiasts
and chemical ones, there's an old saying that MAY have some application
here--when you think about it long enough. The saying is "if you don't
stand for something, you'll fall for anything". Many people can be
VERY opinionated. I know, I'm one of them!
I have lived on the chemical side for most
of my life--of 57 years. Last year I tried some cotttonseed meal on my
sugarcane and decide to increase the rate to double. THIS YEAR it was
affordable to buy versus chemical. Then I decided to try some cottonseed
meal on my Irish potatoes--knowing that potatoes like a lot of Phosphorus,
rather than Nitrogen(which the cottonseed meal is high in). Well we got
some drenching rains! The potatoes with chemical fertilizer has been
dead and harvested for 2 1/2 weeks and it is just getting to be harvest
time on the potatoes with cottonseed meal. The plants stayed green over 2
1/2 weeks longer! The potatoes have better color(in the ground) too,
than the chemically fertilized ones.
So now, I'm gung-ho to try more cottonseed
meal. I tell an organic friend about mu results and advise her on where she
can purchase cottonseed meal and guess what response I get?
"Cottonseed meal ISN'T ORGANIC!" I thought to
myself, "that's crazy!" But she explains, "the cottonseed is
probably BIOENGINEERED--( a no-no) and the cotton was probably sprayed with
Roundup and pesticides! The meal is CONTAMINATED.
Probably needless to say, I will NEVER be an
organic gardener. It's next to impossible to be an organic gardener---or
certified organic these days, certainly not on a commercial scale. I
had thought that I might try growing organic vegetables this Fall and sell
them at the Farmers Market, but no, I can't even call them organic without
breaking a law now. They have to meet arbitrary legal standards now. I have
to call them "naturally-grown" or something.
So, I'm no longer hyped up about
organic gardening---again. IPM sounds logical to me. We have a county agent
that this is a part of his job title "IPM Specialist".
But I guess we have "different
strokes for different folks" as Sly said in his song.
Personally, I look at food like the
scripture says, " every creature(referring to meat here---or food) of
God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with
thanksgiving. For it is sanctified by the word of God and
prayer." I try to pray over everything that I eat. I don't
know(for sure) what's in the food that I eat(and literally noone does). But
I know faith always works.
Some folks have faith in organic, some
in chemical. Let's not fight over which is right or wrong.
Donna, keep up the good
writings. You brightened my day!
Richard Harrison, NW FL
--- On Fri, 6/12/09, Kieran &/or Donna <holycow@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
From: Kieran &/or Donna <holycow@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] chemical vs organic
To: "North American Fruit Explorers"
<nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 11:13 AM
Someone,
I think it was Fluffy or maybe Alan who said organic people
are "unscientific". That's not entirely
true. Most of us are simply naive idealists who really believe that
God or Nature is benign and nice. We have read that if we just
improve our soil enough, that the bugs and disease will go away.
That generally seems to hold true for truck crops. I haven't
seen a bean beetle in years. Fruit trees seem much harder to deal
with. The borer for every species thing doesn't
help. The curculio seem to have developed the perfect system, simply
ruin all the fruit for any other creature but let a few fruits hang on
long enough to make a few seeds for the trees to
reproduce. Codling moths aren't nearly as
efficient. Someone asked me at work about what
was eating the leaves on various species of veggies in her first
ever garden. Two of us were interrogating her, as she was
obviously describing rabbit or deer damage. the same bug does not
attack all those species, and each one does it's own very specific
thing. The older men in the family had simply gone out and
dusted Sevin to deal with all those other pests. Here our worlds
divide. I adore bugs, except for the ones I hate with a
passion. I could never spray my garden with an insecticide, it would
kill too many of my miniature wildlife. ( I don't have to go on
safari to Africa or even use binoculars to observe amazing creatures
and great drama. Try watching one of those special spider wasps in
action. You know, the blackish ones with the orange curly
antennae. Know what they use those antennae for? They feel
the spider very carefully with them to find the right spot to sting.
It's rather obscene to watch, esp as I am so fond of wolf
spiders. ) I know a great deal about all kinds of bugs,
including those that have no economic impact on me. Tennessee
oldtimers don't know these things, they kill everything with Sevin.
That is scientific? I get a big kick out of explaining to
oldtimers about why the blister beetles they hate so much are only a mixed
curse, because their young feed on grasshopper eggs. Once we got
banties running loose eating grasshoppers, the blister beetles became
rare.
Sevin is one of the 4 food groups in Tennessee. Never mind that it is
a neurotoxin that mammals can break down in their livers because they have
an enzyme that insects don't have. Never mind that this enzyme can be
used up by repeated exposure or that certain medications can use it
up. Never mind the reports in Organic Gardening, that magazine for
superstitious organic gardeners about how Sevin can last 40 days in the
garden in certain conditions. Never mind the final conclusion in the
book A PLAGUE OF FROGS that it was the breakdown product of a
pesticide that interfered with the thyroid function in the developing frogs
and caused the limb deformities. The researchers working with the
pesticide itself did not get these results, giving the impression that it
would not affect frogs. Yes, there is also some kind of amphibian
infection running around that can do this, but the Canadian researcher said
flatly that in his years of sampling, that only farm ponds with lots of
pesticides produced deformities. Is it truly scientific to assume
that chemicals don't break down into intermediate products out in
Nature? Some of us organic nuts are now bitter and twisted,
having realised that the world consists mostly of creatures saying
gimme. We watch longingly the simple lives of chemical
users, but are still only too aware that the miracle of
modern chemistry is biting America's backside in the rates
of cancer and other health problems.
This is not intended as an attack on anyone on this group, I am merely
addressing the great divide in Nafex. Never mind politics, we don't
go to Nafex meetings and then immediately try to figure out whether we are
talking to a Dem or Rep, we want to know if we are talking with someone who
grows resistant stuff or who grows the best of everything and sprays.
Both groups start out naive, but one trusts the chemical companies and
sprays, the other puts their faith in Nature and doesn't spray. Both
get rewards, but often the organic bunch have to do a whole lot more
learning first. Personally, I would love to see the concept of IPM
agriculture blossom. I would love to be able to buy IPM produce in my
local grocery. But somehow the concept has never gotten major
attention among consumers and publications to consumers. IPM is
definitely the most scientific form of agriculture in my opinion. It
is based on the intersection of 3 realities, economic reality, and the
knowlege of biology and chemistry.
I suppose this is the foundation for an article I have long wanted to write
for Pomona but never could quite figure out how to approach. The
divide in Nafex between the organic and the chemical people is quite
deep. People have their minds as made up already as they did in the
last election. I soon discovered last year that I could only discuss
politics with like minded people, that there were no discussions between
sides, only arguments. I think the divide is addressed by the
Meyers-Briggs, Kiersey-Bates personality tests. The division is
between the 25% of the population who see the forest, and the 75% who see
the trees. Between the big picture and the details.
The big picture people think the detail people are idiots because they
can't grasp the implications of what they do. The detail people think
the big picture people are idiots because they are vague. For the
extremes of either type, there is sudden glazing over of the eyes when
forced to converse with someone of the other brain type. I have watched
it happen, I have experienced it myself. My husband once
endured an excruciating conversation between a brother and BIL of
mine, 15 full minutes regarding a scratch on a car and what to do about
it. Our attitude is, the car is transportation, a scratch means
nothing to that purpose. To detail people, a scratch is a very real
thing.
For the purposes of this discussion, ask yourself which type you are, and
would you please report in which type you are and whether you think organic
gardening is stupid and chemicals are fine. Remember there are
people in the middle, more versatile people than the ones at the ends of
the spectrum. If you are in the middle, what is your opinion re
chemicals, in 25 words or less? Thank you. Any input
regarding an article for Pomona on this subject would be very much
appreciated. A group effort will produce a better balanced
article. Some details, some theory, something for
everyone. Donna
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