North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Anthony Curcio <apc@vassolinc.com>]

We had our first Persimmons this year from a 3 yo. Meader. Very exciting and 
pleasantly surprised by the flavor. We were told they would not grow in our 
Nth. Illinois zone 4. A second tree planted at the same time seemed to have 
died off but has now come back to life possibly from below the graft. Any 
thoughts on whether or not it will produce ? We have pruned it and it is 
actually a pretty nice looking tree. Can anyone recommend other cold hardy 
varieties? We are hooked on this little fruit.
Thank you, Anthony

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: questions about [American] persimmons (Jwlehman@aol.com)
   2. Re: Replanting interval on blackberries (Michael Dossett)
   3. Re: chestnut apple - late season (D Stubbs)
   4. Re: questions about [American] persimmons (Melissa Kacalanos)
   5. Re: never mind yacon, grow Apios (Donna &/or Kieran)
   6. Re: kaki persimmon (Donna &/or Kieran)
   7. Re: never mind yacon, grow Apios (Lon J. Rombough)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:39:53 EDT
From: Jwlehman@aol.com
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] questions about [American] persimmons
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <d24.366672cd.362784e9@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

In a message dated 10/15/2008 12:15:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ENatelson@tmhs.org writes:

> With the excellent modern endoscopy equipment and the use of various enzyme
> preparations it would be most unusual for someone to require surgical
> removal of a persimmon beozoar.

Thank you Nate for the update. That is good to know.

Jerry


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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:48:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Dossett <phainopepla@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Replanting interval on blackberries
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <546655.89922.qm@web90504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

There are fewer and fewer chemicals available to control crown borer.  
Diazinon used to be the recommended product, but the EPA has been trying to 
phase it out for years and it lost its label for use in caneberries several 
years ago.  I've heard that Guthion has some effectiveness but not as good as 
diazinon.  I've also heard of people using parasitic nematodes with mixed 
success.  There is a group working on a pheromone trap for the crown-borer 
moth, but so far they have not been able to isolate the compound.  In a 
nutshell, there are a few chemicals out there with some efficacy, but the 
list seems to get shorter every year and raspberry crown borer can be a 
difficult pest to deal with.

As for the blackberries not fruiting, I'm not sure.  Did they flower normally 
and just not set or did they not even flower?  I wonder if double blossom or 
some other fungus is the culprit although that wouldn't explain the problem 
with the cherries...

Michael

Michael Dossett
Corvallis, Oregon
www.Mdossettphoto.com
phainopepla@yahoo.com


--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Mark Angermayer <hangermayer@isp.com> wrote:

> From: Mark Angermayer <hangermayer@isp.com>
> Subject: [NAFEX] Replanting interval on blackberries
> To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 6:50 PM
> MessageMichael,
>
> I don't know for sure why commercial growers in this
> area replant so soon.
> The guy I was talking to (Dr. Pat Byers out of MU) talked
> like it had
> something to do with a Rasp. Crown Borer buildup.  He said
> he's dug up
> plants with multiple borers on each plant.  I'm
> battling this myself, but my
> understanding is it can be chemically controlled.  I've
> heard Capture is
> effective.  Why commercial growers wouldn't use it, I
> don't know.
>
> Evidently commercial growers just aren't that adverse
> to replanting.  To
> wit, commercial strawberries are replanted annually around
> here.  Doesn't
> make sense to me, but I'm sure it offers the most
> production in a commercial
> setting.
>
>
> Change of subject, but today I was talking with a fella
> who's blackberries
> didn't fruit this year.  He seemed to know a fair
> amount about blackberries
> but was at a loss as to why they didn't fruit.  He said
> he had lots of
> foliage growth, and a few small berries that shriveled up,
> but that was it.
> I quizzed him about pruning, and as far as I could tell he
> was pruning
> correctly.  Asked him about over-fertilizing, and he said
> he didn't put any
> more fertilizer on than normal.  I was puzzled because my
> blackberries
> produced heavily, and this guy lives only about 10 miles
> from me.  We didn't
> get a late frost this year.  Any ideas?  Oh, also he said
> his cherries
> didn't fruit either.
>
> Mark
> KS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> It could be contamination or it could be a sport.  We have
> a plant here that
> we call "early Marion" which was a sport
> (can't remember whether it
> originated in a growers field or in one of ours) that
> consistently blooms
> ~3-4 days or so earlier than Marion but is identical to
> Marion in all other
> respects.  Though with something that suckers and forms a
> hedge like
> 'Ouachita' it would be a little more difficult to
> tell I suppose.
>
> The 7 year figure surprises me a little but not so much.  I
> wonder what
> problems they have that they feel compelled to replace
> their plantings so
> quickly.  The average life of a red raspberry planting in
> Washington is
> around 7-8 years because of disease issues and black
> raspberries here in
> Oregon are around 3 years.  A healthy planting of either
> should remain
> productive for decades.  I'm sure establishment of
> offtypes in the field
> would be more of an issue in such a case but commercial
> fields just aren't
> in for that long.
>
> I've never heard of someone growing Triple Crown
> without a trellis.  Not
> that it can't be done.  I suppose if you hedged the
> primocanes off short
> enough you may be able to get them to stand up on their own
> for you but
> you'd be losing a lot of the crop load in order to do
> so.  I have a hard
> time seeing it being grown successfully without support and
> still living up
> to its potential.  While they come out of the ground stout,
> the canes can be
> a little limber, especially after they branch.  Atleast
> they're thornless so
> tying up the canes is a little less of a chore than
> otherwise :-)
>
> Michael
>
> Michael Dossett
> Corvallis, Oregon
>
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:27:53 -0500
From: "D Stubbs" <dsmndel@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] chestnut apple - late season
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
        <e49123cc0810151727q2d372812w36a1dc7366721d71@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Steve , I experienced that until today on our chestnut 'lunch box' apples as
well.
 I had nearly given up on them to be their usual amazing selves this year,
but, 6 weeks late & if the temps can stay above freezing a bit more I think
they will nearly make it. Two of three today had real zip.
Del z2/3 MN


>
> Speaking of Chestnut crab, do yours taste as good as usual this year?
> Mine are late too, with most of them still hanging on the tree. They are
> usually my favorite flavored apple with a rich, sweet, complex flavor.
> This year, I could describe them about the same but I don't like them.
> Something in the flavor just isn't right. I wonder if that will be true
> if they ever ripen this late again some year?
>
> Steve
>
>
--
Del,  2b/3a  n. Mn
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:55:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Melissa Kacalanos <mijwiz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] questions about [American] persimmons
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <434121.47737.qm@web31909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I can't imagine eating enough astringent persimmons to
cause any sort of digestive problem. They taste so
extremely horrible, I'd think anyone would know not to
eat more than a bite.

I guess different people have different tolerances,
though. My husband enjoys ripe, soft, juicy persimmons
from the astringent category, even though the small
amount of astringency they have left is still way over
the level I can tolerate. I leave those persimmons to
him. Oddly, I enjoy spicy food that he finds way too
hot to eat, so it's not like he's insensitive in
general.

The non-astringent persimmons, however, are delicious
to both of us. I don't suppose there's a variety
that's hardy here in zone 5? It seems that all the
hardy varieties are astringent. I guess I could plant
one just for my husband, but I'd like to eat them too.

Melissa







------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:25:08 -0500
From: "Donna &/or Kieran" <holycow@cookeville.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] never mind yacon, grow Apios
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <E2A4C45986764A95A1C2EF13CA666459@YOUR20FE224C19>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

No work once it gets going, except for the problem that we tried and failed 
to eat our way out of it.  It's seriously taking over.  Don't plant it in 
your garden!
Here's the best article I have seen on the subject:
http://www.wildflowers-and-weeds.com/The_Forager/hopniss.htm
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:35:50 -0500
From: "Donna &/or Kieran" <holycow@cookeville.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] kaki persimmon
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <F91052DAF18E40368F2110740D025621@YOUR20FE224C19>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Betsy,
    I hate to tell you this but if you have Ichi Ki Kei Jiro, you probably 
have the best already.  Mike Cartwright tried his best to convert me to 
kakis, sending me a sampling of his every fall, and the only one I liked was 
that one.   The soft kinds are boring compared to the natives, but Ichi Ki 
Kei Jiro was entirely different, rather like caramel candy.   I suppose some 
of the other non astringent types could be similar in taste.    Donna
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:36:49 -0700
From: "Lon J. Rombough" <lonrom@hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] never mind yacon, grow Apios
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <7651d23e73e4c6ae1587eff251a61233@hevanet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

        A weed there, but in the west Apios hardly even grows until midsummer,
then requires heavy watering.  It needs warm, wet summers to perform.
-Lon Rombough

Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, The Grape Grower, at
http://www.bunchgrapes.com  Winner of the Garden Writers Association
"Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003.
For all other things grape,   http://www.vitisearch.com
A video about The Grape Grower :
http://cookingupastory.com/index.php/2008/04/18/the-grape-grower/
On Oct 15, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Donna &/or Kieran wrote:

No work once it gets going, except for the problem that we tried and
failed to eat our way out of it.? It's seriously taking over.? Don't
plant it in your garden!
Here's the best article I have seen on the subject:?
http://www.wildflowers-and-weeds.com/The_Forager/
hopniss.htm_______________________________________________
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