North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Michael Dossett <phainopepla@yahoo.com>]

Mark,

It could be contamination or it could be a sport.  We have a plant here that 
we call "early Marion" which was a sport (can't remember whether it 
originated in a growers field or in one of ours) that consistently blooms 
~3-4 days or so earlier than Marion but is identical to Marion in all other 
respects.  Though with something that suckers and forms a hedge like 
'Ouachita' it would be a little more difficult to tell I suppose.

The 7 year figure surprises me a little but not so much.  I wonder what 
problems they have that they feel compelled to replace their plantings so 
quickly.  The average life of a red raspberry planting in Washington is 
around 7-8 years because of disease issues and black raspberries here in 
Oregon are around 3 years.  A healthy planting of either should remain 
productive for decades.  I'm sure establishment of offtypes in the field 
would be more of an issue in such a case but commercial fields just aren't in 
for that long.

I've never heard of someone growing Triple Crown without a trellis.  Not that 
it can't be done.  I suppose if you hedged the primocanes off short enough 
you may be able to get them to stand up on their own for you but you'd be 
losing a lot of the crop load in order to do so.  I have a hard time seeing 
it being grown successfully without support and still living up to its 
potential.  While they come out of the ground stout, the canes can be a 
little limber, especially after they branch.  Atleast they're thornless so 
tying up the canes is a little less of a chore than otherwise :-)

Michael

Michael Dossett
Corvallis, Oregon
www.Mdossettphoto.com
phainopepla@yahoo.com


--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Mark Angermayer <hangermayer@isp.com> wrote:

> From: Mark Angermayer <hangermayer@isp.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Triple Crown blackberry-keeping seedlings out
> To: phainopepla@yahoo.com, "North American Fruit Explorers" 
> <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 10:03 AM
> Thanks Michael,
> 
> I haven't  heard anybody talk about this, so it must
> not be much of a
> problem.  I had wondered if my fairly new blackberry patch
> is already
> contaminated.  This spring  was the first bloom for most of
> the plants.  One
> of the rows (Quachita I think) had one plant that clearly
> bloomed earlier
> than the rest.  It was right in the middle of the row.  Yet
> in all other
> respects (size, flavor) it seemed the same as the other
> blackberries in the
> row.  I had wondered if the nursery where I got them,
> accidently sent me a
> cross.  Around here, I'm told (from a commercial fruit
> ag extension person)
> commercial plantings are replanted about every seven years.
>  That sounds
> awful quick replanting to me, but I suppose it would solve
> the problem of
> crosses creeping in to the planting, if that were a
> problem.
> 
> On another issue, have you ever heard of anyone trying to
> grow Triple Crown
> without a trellis?  I have one row on a trellis, but
> thinking of adding
> another without the trellis.  Looking for a lazy way to
> grow them.
> 
> Mark
> KS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Michael wrote:
> 
> Well I think it depends a bit on the berry.  The trailing
> blackberries we
> grow here as well as the thornless semi-erects like Triple
> Crown are crown
> forming so it's pretty easy to catch small seedlings
> coming up between the
> plants when managing other weeds either through sprays or
> mechanical
> removal.  For the erect blackberries or for things like red
> raspberry (black
> raspberries too, in commercial settings) which are managed
> as hedges I
> suppose it's more likely to be an issue, but in a
> healthy, relatively dense,
> planting seedlings have a limited chance to get established
> and are quickly
> outcompeted.  I don't think most growers generally
> worry about it, and I
> suspect that a lot of commercial plantings get turned over
> before the number
> of off types in a field would really be noticeable at all. 
> Having said
> that, there are fields of 'Marion' here in the
> Willamette Valley that have
> been in production for 30 or 40 years.
> 
> We do have a small problem in our research plots with the
> occaisional
> Himalayan Blackberry getting established in our fields. 
> When this happens
> and we notice it, we generally rely on mechanical removal
> and a little bit
> of roundup.
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> Michael Dossett
> Corvallis, Oregon