North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["Larry D. Cook" <cookfrenchlick@yahoo.com>]

I'm interested in your opinons of the fruit of Cornus mas: taste and method of use for food. 

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: splicing tape (Mark & Helen Angermayer)
2. cold-hardy figs (ethan roland)
3. Re: Zone 5 figs? (Hans Brinkmann)
4. Re: cold-hardy figs (John Smith)
5. Re: Zone 5 figs? (nottke1)
6. P. trifoliata cold hardiness (Richard Moyer)
7. Zone 5 Figs (Richard Moyer)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 13:09:53 -0600
From: "Mark & Helen Angermayer"
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] splicing tape
To: "North American Fruit Explorers"
Message-ID: <007301c7627e$8633ede0$649a8541@computer5>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Thanks Tanis and Kenneth for the advice on the splicing tape. One of the
reasons I wanted to try spicing tape over parafilm was that the tape is
black. Not that I know that much about grafting (last year was my first
year), but my thought was, for spring grafts, splice tape would absorb and
retain more heat than parafilm. Last year for whip/tongue grafts, I used
masking tape and then painted over the tape with black grafting compound to
"heat" the grafts. Maybe it helped, maybe it didn't, but it was murder to
unwrap the mess. Sounds like parafilm and splice tape are both work very
well. It would be interesting for some of you folks who do hundreds of
grafts to test both products so we could know which is the absolute best.
We beginners need every advantage we can get!

Mark
Kansas

> Thanks for the reminder about stretching the tape Tanis. I forgot to say
anything about it, but habitually do it. Did around 500 grafts in 2005 using
this tape.
>
> Everyone should try this tape. Does Parafilm actually stick to itself?
This tape that Tanis and I (and others) use sticks very well to itself, I
think it is called self-vulcanizing or some such word. You can stop in the
middle of wrapping a graft and it does not unwind on you like a rubber band
would. Everything stays put. Think - one very sticky rubber band. Just
lovely!
>
> This tape breaks down rapidly in full summer sun. Sometimes as early as a
week. If you want it to last the full season, just wrap a little foil (gum
wrapper etc) around the tape to block destructive UV rays. I like the fact
that it wants to rot so easily!
>
> All who use this technique please thank Tanis. I would not have known
squat about this but she is the one who first posted it several years ago.
>
> Kenneth Q.
>
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 14:46:20 -0500
From: "ethan roland"
Subject: [NAFEX] cold-hardy figs
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
<16348bfe0703091146o44fbf4dam8978c4e490d588f3@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I've ordered a 'Hardy Chicago' to plant this spring in my upstate New
York zone 5a.

Given the way that the climate is a-shiftin', I say go for it! We may
even be planting asian persimmons in a few years!

Cheers,
Ethan


--
Ethan C. Roland
(518) 610-1375

AppleSeed Permaculture
Design - Teach - Advise
www.appleseedpermaculture.com

Northeastern Permaculture Wiki
www.northeasternpermaculture.wikispaces.com

8th International Permaculture Conference, Brazil, 2007
www.ipc8.org

" You can count the number of seeds in an apple, but you can't count
the number of apples in a seed" - proverb via Paul Krafel


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 22:04:37 +0100
From: Hans Brinkmann
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Zone 5 figs?
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Message-ID: <45F1CBE5.7000300@t-online.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hallo Bill,
figs have been proposed in former days as fruit-trees in Germany!
We have (had) temperatures less than minus 25?C!
In former days specialists proposed, to mulch each year during winter all
"fruit-bearing-branches" complete with straw, mulch or even (carefully)
with soil,
by bending them down.
Not only to protect branches from freezing-damage, but
to PROTECT the unripe FRUITS (looking very small)!
In our climate figs do need always TWO YEARS to ripe and they will ripe
only with a winter protection.
I think in Mediterranean areas figs have two different kinds of
flower-types.
Not so in Germany and other cold regions.

Now-a-days this knowledge is lost, and most Germans are keeping their
figs outside - usually without fruits,
but sometimes as very nice bushes/trees, or inside (winter) as quite
small bushes, with chances of fruits.

With your Greek background, I think it is a MUST to grow your own figs -
with winterprotection and outside the whole year!

ciao
Hans






Hal Love schrieb:
> Bill,
>
> I would think that they are exagerating things quite a bit. You could
> probably ripen the figs there, but I doubt it would survive without heroic
> measures to protect it outdoors. I have it here, and it survives outside
> unprotected, but does suffer die back. Hardy Chicago would be a better
> choice for you, as it ripens earlier and is quite hardy. You would still
> have to grow it in a container, and move it into a basement or unheated
> garage, or wrap it really well with burlap or at least mulch the roots
> really well. Dessication from cold dry wind is the biggest problem, so plant
> in a well protected site.
>
> Hal
> zn 6b, TN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William C. Garthright"
> To: "NAFEX List"
> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:44 AM
> Subject: [NAFEX] Zone 5 figs?
>
>
>
>> Speaking of figs,... I noticed the Brown Turkey Fig in the Stark Bro's
>> catalog, where it loudly proclaims, "Grow figs as far north as Zone 5!"
>> After a web search that included the NAFEX Fig Page, I see that this fig
>> can crop on new growth after the tops are winter-killed. Would that
>> really be practical - well, not exactly practical, I'm sure, but...
>> possible - here?
>>
>> I'm in Zone 5a (AHS Heat Zone 7), and it got below zero several times
>> this winter (twice to -8, I believe). Could I still grow this fig if I
>> mulch it heavily with straw for the winter (expecting that the top would
>> die back each year, but it would re-sprout from the roots)? If so, how
>> should I manage that? Cut it off at ground level in late winter, or just
>> wait and see what happens? And how big should I expect it to get each
>> year (i.e. how much room would it need - the absolute minimum)? It would
>> probably sprout in bush form, wouldn't it? So I'm guessing it wouldn't
>> take much room (always an advantage). Any other tips? I'm thinking about
>> planting one in the spring of 2008, if it looks feasible.
>>
>> OK, I realize it's probably weird to think of planting a fig in
>> Nebraska, but that's part of the attraction. And the fact is, I've been
>> planting so many fruit trees and bushes in my yard that I'll never be
>> able to eat all of it, anyway. So I don't mind experimenting with
>> something like this, unless it's completely ridiculous. If it doesn't
>> work, that won't be a big problem.
>>
>> Also,... this brings back my youth. Many years ago, I spent a couple of
>> weeks in September camped on a Greek island next to some abandoned fig
>> trees. They were loaded with ripe figs and with figs that had completely
>> dried on the tree, and with figs at all stages in between. All were
>> delicious! (I'd never eaten a ripe fig before.) I certainly never
>> expected to grow figs in Nebraska, but this catalog entry really caught
>> my attention! Please tell me it's possible. :-)
>>
>> Incidentally, it's not practical for me to bring a potted tree inside
>> for the winter, so that option is out. My house is too small and so is
>> the garage (not to mention that it's an old, detached garage which
>> wouldn't be much shelter).
>>
>> Bill
>> Lincoln, NE (cold zone 5a, heat zone 7)
>>
>> --
>> If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out? - Will
>> Rogers
>>
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 13:50:45 -0800 (PST)
From: John Smith
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] cold-hardy figs
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Message-ID: <268924.5431.qm@web52801.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

There's a fellow here in Missouri (St Louis area, zone
6a) that grows several varieties of figs in an
unheated high tunnel/hoop house and gets enough figs
to sell fresh at local farmers markets and
restaurants. Apparently they sell real well and he
gets a real nice price because it's not easy to ship
fresh ripe figs from better production areas. It gets
pretty cold in the high tunnel during winter nights,
and even with mulching his plants die back, but I
guess the high tunnel can keep them warmer during the
growing season and extend the season enough for a good
crop. This year he's heating the high tunnel and
hopes for an earlier, even more productive crop and
less dieback.


--- ethan roland wrote:

> I've ordered a 'Hardy Chicago' to plant this spring
> in my upstate New
> York zone 5a.
>
> Given the way that the climate is a-shiftin', I say
> go for it! We may
> even be planting asian persimmons in a few years!
>
> Cheers,
> Ethan
>
>
> --
> Ethan C. Roland
> (518) 610-1375
>
> AppleSeed Permaculture
> Design - Teach - Advise
> www.appleseedpermaculture.com
>
> Northeastern Permaculture Wiki
> www.northeasternpermaculture.wikispaces.com
>
> 8th International Permaculture Conference, Brazil,
> 2007
> www.ipc8.org
>
> " You can count the number of seeds in an apple, but
> you can't count
> the number of apples in a seed" - proverb via Paul
> Krafel
> _______________________________________________
> nafex mailing list
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> allowed.
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 18:55:00 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: nottke1
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Zone 5 figs?
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Message-ID:
<10878325.1173484501026.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Bill,

When I lived in Delaware (6B) I tried growing Hardy Chicago and would get a few figs in late September on the new year's growth after it froze to the ground.
So for a few years I cut the roots on the west side of the bush in October, leaned it over to the ground, laid a couple 8 inch cinder block on it, covered it with pine straw and then typical indoor carpeting (I was in the carpet fiber business). It was on the south side of the garage. Each year I would re-erect it about Easter weekend and it would hold most of the figs and I would get a crop in early August. After 3 or 4 years I got tired of doing it.

Jim
Zone 7A in NC

-----Original Message-----
>From: "William C. Garthright"
>Sent: Mar 9, 2007 11:44 AM
>To: NAFEX List
>Subject: [NAFEX] Zone 5 figs?
>
>Speaking of figs,... I noticed the Brown Turkey Fig in the Stark Bro's
>catalog, where it loudly proclaims, "Grow figs as far north as Zone 5!"
>After a web search that included the NAFEX Fig Page, I see that this fig
>can crop on new growth after the tops are winter-killed. Would that
>really be practical - well, not exactly practical, I'm sure, but...
>possible - here?
>
>I'm in Zone 5a (AHS Heat Zone 7), and it got below zero several times
>this winter (twice to -8, I believe). Could I still grow this fig if I
>mulch it heavily with straw for the winter (expecting that the top would
>die back each year, but it would re-sprout from the roots)? If so, how
>should I manage that? Cut it off at ground level in late winter, or just
>wait and see what happens? And how big should I expect it to get each
>year (i.e. how much room would it need - the absolute minimum)? It would
>probably sprout in bush form, wouldn't it? So I'm guessing it wouldn't
>take much room (always an advantage). Any other tips? I'm thinking about
>planting one in the spring of 2008, if it looks feasible.
>
>OK, I realize it's probably weird to think of planting a fig in
>Nebraska, but that's part of the attraction. And the fact is, I've been
>planting so many fruit trees and bushes in my yard that I'll never be
>able to eat all of it, anyway. So I don't mind experimenting with
>something like this, unless it's completely ridiculous. If it doesn't
>work, that won't be a big problem.
>
>Also,... this brings back my youth. Many years ago, I spent a couple of
>weeks in September camped on a Greek island next to some abandoned fig
>trees. They were loaded with ripe figs and with figs that had completely
>dried on the tree, and with figs at all stages in between. All were
>delicious! (I'd never eaten a ripe fig before.) I certainly never
>expected to grow figs in Nebraska, but this catalog entry really caught
>my attention! Please tell me it's possible. :-)
>
>Incidentally, it's not practical for me to bring a potted tree inside
>for the winter, so that option is out. My house is too small and so is
>the garage (not to mention that it's an old, detached garage which
>wouldn't be much shelter).
>
>Bill
>Lincoln, NE (cold zone 5a, heat zone 7)
>
>--
>If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out? - Will
>Rogers
>
>_______________________________________________
>nafex mailing list
>nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 20:50:37 -0500
From: "Richard Moyer"
Subject: [NAFEX] P. trifoliata cold hardiness
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
<619330e60703091750j108dcc65q31096b4985e3ca82@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Was asked:
"Does anyone know where we can get seed/germplasm of P.trifoliata from the
northern limit of it's natural distribution? Does anyone have a
P.trifoliatathat has withstood zone 5 winter temperatures without
injury?"

>From what I've read, P. trifoliata was introduced to US late 1840s from
China, both by Berkman in Augusta, GA (Fruitland Nursery) and by USDA. So
it's not native, but has been here about 150 years. What I have from the
Augusta, GA site (seedlings from ditch around Augusta National Golf Course)
have survived -14 and minus single digits a number of times the last 12 or
so years. They do get some tip dieback. Mine bloom on wood 2-3 years old,
so tip burn does not limit fruiting for us.
Other sources also report survival and fruiting after Zone 5 winters; I
suspect the P. trifoliata that is severely injured by such temps may be the
anamoly, at least for the material growing in the upper south.

The only other local source I have tasted had powerful emetic properties.
So there is marked variation in this emetic trait, even though all fruit
may be seedy, small and gummy as noted by Donna. Depending on your
goals, you may want to consider a better flavored (less emetic) one, which
will probably come with Zone 5 hardiness to boot.

Richard Moyer
Zone 6, East TN
Peach bloom buds showing pink, Cornus mas in full bloom
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