North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Heron Breen <breen@fedcoseeds.com>]

Hi all,
I had a somewhat similar experience this winter sorting through some scion 
wood: 
Most apple buds are alternate, with a close or opposite pair occurring here 
and 
there. While looking at some English Golden Russet scion wood, I noticed a 
set of 
three buds opposite each other on a one year growth stick. I have read in 
some very 
old literature that this happens once and a while and quads are possible but 
more 
rare. Akin to a lucky clover in apple bud formation. 
 Sounds like what Nick has is pretty neat! In reference to selecting for 
fruit 
breeding, I have access to some real specific trait-guided selection 
technique 
books for veggies. These contain somewhat of a holy grail for vegetable 
breeding ie 
how to select crosses  in five stages even before fruiting to maximize 
quality. The 
info is broken down into species and then types within species. I wonder if 
such 
books might exist for fruit tree breeding?
 Anywho, I am going to attempt graft said 3-way opposite budded scion piece, 
just 
to see if this is an indication of anything.
Nick, where are you in Maine?
Heron Breen
zone 4, Maine  

On Fri May 13  2:18 , <leclair@verizon.net> sent:

>I have a small apple orchard in Maine and I decided to grow some new trees 
>from 
seed. Now, I'm not looking to grow great or exceptional apples; just ones 
good 
enough for cider or cooking.  If the trees don't make good apples, I'll just 
top 
graft them with other varieties.  
>
>Right now, I have a little over a hundred seedlings.  Most of them look like 
average ordinary antonovka rootstock seedlings with small average leaves.  
Some of 
them have tiny skinny leaves that look like the ones on certain small 
crabapples.  
>
>And one of the seedlings has three cotelydons.  This one is almost twice as 
>tall 
as the average with much larger and broader leaves.  The leaves also have 
much 
larger teeth than the average leaf.
>
>The third cotelydon folded out from in between the other two "standard" 
>cotelydons 
to form a "Y" shape.  The plant is at about the same stage as the rest of the 
seedlings with about the same number of leaves, etc., except everything is 
larger.
> 
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that a standard apple 
>tree has 
34 chromosomes.
>
>Also, it is my understanding (based on memories of botany class way back in 
school) that one of the cotelydons in a dicot has the genes from one of its 
parents, while the other cotelydon has the genes from the other parent. 
>
>So, if this is the case in this seedling as well as standard dicots, my 
>seedling 
should have 51 chromosomes, the same number that triploids have.  
>
>So my roundabout question is, does three cotelydons make a triploid? 
>
>Also, what are the odds of having good fruit from this tree?
>
>Any info would be helpful.
>
>Thanks,
>-Nick  
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