North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[rmelrose@bluemoo.net]

Thanks for your comments Rodney, let me be more specific.

Last winter was the first we have had -35F for quite some years and I am
pretty convinced that the damage I am seeing was caused by the deep-winter
cold, even though there was plenty of snow cover. In particular I have not
seen it in the preceding 6 years. There was no late hard frost this
year. In fact I was hoping for a bumper crop but I suspect the long dark,
cool and damp Spring caused pollination problems. Orchard (Mason) bees do
not seem to prosper here.

Late Spring frost in the past have produced widespread bud kill but not the
sort of systemic damage I am seeing.

My general cultivation regime has been to clear the cherries in May and
June. Usually I give them some compost (perhaps unwisely given the links
you provided I used some 10-10-10 this year near the drip line) and water
as needed up until about now. Then I let the grass grow back, which it does
with vigour in these parts. As you suggest, it would probably be better to
clear and feed in Fall but I generally do not have the time. I aim for
around 9 inches to 1 foot of new growth (this is based on reading somewhere
that much below this leads to lack of flower bud development), as early as
possible. I have not seen much trouble with hardening off, in cherries that
is; apples of various sorts are a different story. We typically get a mild
(bean killing) frost around Sept 10, then often no frost until the end of
the month; hard frost comes in October with snow showers later in that
month and ground freeze some time in November. Winter did come early last
year, in the sense that the cold was deep already in November, but I still
do not think this was a problem with the cherries. Of course, I could be
wrong! I never feed newly planted trees of any sort.

I had not thought of a folar feed, but then there weren't many leaves to feed!

Rootstocks are a concern of course. I have been trying (probably not
seriously enough since it seems to be hard) to root cuttings of the tart
cherries especially and try some on their own roots. The `Morello' for
instance was supposed to be on North Star as rootstock. Meteor seems
promising and I will try a few bud grafts onto that and Bali in the next
couple of weeks. I wonder if it is possible to top work a Pin or Black
(prunus serotina) cherry? I believe cleft grafts are unlikely to take in
prunus, but I will give it a try. I have records coming out the Kazoo.

Kristen:- I know it is SUPPOSED to be hardy, but this is the second that
has died on me, without getting established.

I was working my way around to Black and White Gold, maybe next year.

`Porcini' are mushrooms, boletus edulis and, to me, just about one of the
finest wild things there are to eat. (If your Italian is as bad as mine,
this means `little pig', cep in French). Finding them placed in the trees
is a bit disconcerting! Mind you the birds are not discriminating, they
put poisonous amanitas in the trees too.

Richard

On 28 Jul, Rodney Eveland wrote:
> Here is your statements and my answers.
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> I have a bunch of questions (and comments) about cherry-growing in a
> cold
> climate. The USDA seems to have put my plot of land, which is in
> Vermont,
> on the 4a/3b border, but I believe the new edition moves it into 4a for
> what that is worth. As many of you will probably agree, last winter was
> of
> the sort-the-men-from-the-boys type, such as we have not had for several
> years. In particular this summer has brought me the unsatisfactory total
> of 8
> cherries, from a total of about 8 trees which are bearing age! Still, I
> am
> only mildly discouraged, after all cherry trees are very decorative.
> 
> Question: Winter injury. How permanent is it? I am talking about the
> damage
> that produces tuft leaf growth, presumably corresponding to considerable
> vascular damage. I did not see any trunk damage, but the trees are
> wrapped
> in nylon-cloth wrap (why is that stuff so expensive?) Here is a little
> report in decreasing order of severity:
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You need to find out what rootstock all of your trees are
> on. The reason being that with sweet cherries in particular, the
> rootstock has such a great effect that the same tree on two different
> rootstocks might appear to be two different trees to a casual observer.
> The rootstock effects hardiness, bearing age, branching, susceptability
> to some diseases. size of tree and productivity of the tree. Write down
> (in your computer) all of the information you now have on your existing
> trees and even the ones that may have died. Keep records of your coldest
> days in the winter, your frosts in the fall and then again in the spring
> and also any real warm days in the month before the trees break
> dormancy. Many believe that warm days raise the temperature point that
> will damage trees weeks
> later.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> Kristen:- Stone dead, even though it was in a quite protected spot.
> 
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately a single tree dying means nothing, it may have
> been the rootstock or it may have been watering practices, or other
> factors, plus young cherry trees look for a way to die. Kristen is
> supposed to be very hardy.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> Morello:- Severe damage, still has only limited leaf out. This was in
> its
> fifth year and had grown well, although not in a particularly protected
> spot. I will probably leave it over next winter to see, but I suppose it
> is
> done for. By the way, although listed as a sour cherry this looks much
> more
> like a sweet cherry to me both in leaf and tree character.
> 
> Van Sweet, Yellow Glass, Stella, Stark Gold:- These all lost around 1/3
> of their
> branches, were late in breaking dormancy, initially had only tuft growth
> but have subsequently filled out pretty completely on the remaining
> branches. All flower buds killed. The `Yellow Glass' by the way is the
> most
> successful sweet cherry here, no fruit (of course you might say) but in
> previous years has flowered heavily, but without a pollinator.
> 
> No need to tell me I shouldn't be trying to grow sweet cherries, I know
> but
> that doesn't stop me from trying!
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I too am doing my best to grow sweet cherries in zone 4.
> I hope I can succeed.<<<<<<<<
> 
> Danube (Erdi Botermo), Surefire, Early Richmond:- These three lost a
> couple
> of branches each, were slow to leaf out but seem to have recovered and
> are
> growing strongly this summer. I was particularly surprised at the damage
> to
> `Early Richmond'.
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Danube and Surefire just came through their first
> winter. The Danube suffered some damage from a 25 degree frost in May.
> So did my Bali, but both have recovered quite well. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> So, does anyone have a guess as to recovery? Should I expect long-term
> damage
> even in the less severely affected trees?
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I would have fertilized all damaged trees ASAP after all
> danger of frost had passed using foliar feeding with a product like
> Miracle Grow to get as much recovery as possible. Do not fertilize at
> this late date.
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> As to other sour cherries, `Meteor' seems to be the most resilient here
> although the oldest tree (6 years) only has a half dozen cherries this
> year. The others which survived the winter apparently unscathed are
> `Balaton' (with a cherry) and `Bali' (ditto; silly me I have bought both
> a
> `Bali' and an `Evans' not realizing they were the same -- although my
> trees
> look a bit different in leaf colour). `North Star' (2) I have had decent
> crops from this in the past but nada this year. In fact it seems to be
> very
> susceptible to what I take to be bacterial canker. I lost two trees
> (which
> were bearing quite heavily) before I realized what was happening, now I
> cut
> it out (viciously) each winter. None of my other cherries seem to get
> this.
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I have never experienced any diseases of my cherries so
> I have no advice. All of the literature states that Balaton is supposed
> to not be very winter hardy so I haven't planted any. Your experience
> has encouraged me to try this
> tree.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> Question:- Does anyone know the habits of bacterial canker, does it
> spread?
> Does it infect apricots, since something on one `Sungold' looked
> suspiciously similar.
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cherries and Apricots pretty much share same
> diseases.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Here is a URL about the EVANS cherry this year (2003) in
> Canada. This is why record keeping is so important.
> http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/north/msg0602512324407.html
> 
> http://www.dnagardens.com/cherry_evans_tips.htm
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>This last URL explains the importance of watering practices.
> It is really important not to water much in August and Sept. I have a
> Reliance peach and it always died back every year until I cut back on
> the watering. I no longer water at all in August unless perchance the
> tree suffers which has never happened. It is important to get your
> cherry trees to stop growing and set terminal buds before Labor day. I
> do not water to make my grass happy, rather I use the grass as a
> "barometer" of how my watering is coming along. I do not want my grass
> in the area around the trees to be a deep green, but rather turning
> golden by the middle of July and then I water again to revive the grass
> so it doesn't turn entirely gold but is about half green and half gold.
> This is to get the trees to stop growing as new growth that isn't hardy
> winter kills easily. My Montmorency and my reliance peach were planted
> on the same day. This is the first year the peach has grown heavily.
> Last fall I painted it with indoor white latex paint undiluted with
> water. This year I will paint it with a 70/30 mixture. You can also try
> using Wilt Pruf, but paint is much cheaper. One more thing - an older
> gardener told me to always fertilize in the fall and only in the fall
> after dormancy to get maximum growth. I started doing this last year. No
> problems so far except that my peach and Bali haven't stopped growing
> yet. I planted all three sweets this year and didn't fertilize them at
> all. One other practice I am using is not to water in the spring until
> all danger of frost has passed (Memorial
> day).<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
>>>>>>>>>>> One more URL about watering
> practices<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> http://www.saskatoonfarm.com/opinionevans_cherries.htm
> 
> 
> Continuing:- `Mesabi' (young) did fine as did `Montmorency' (the first
> of these
> seems to be dwarfed by something, possibly soil conditions, the second
> was
> supposed to be a dwarf but is now larger than the first, although 3
> years
> younger ..). Also
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>My Monmorency has never failed to produce. It is
> laden right now even though it suffered through that 25 degree frost
> back in MAY while in full bloom<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> Question:- `Erdi Jubileum' does anyone have any experience with the cold
> hardiness of this Hungarian? I planted one this year, as always in hope.
> 
> Question: Does anyone know how to, preferably legally, import the
> Canadian
> cherries (where I use the term in the wide sense) `Carmine Jewel',
> `Galaxy'
> and `Rose'? It occurred to me that these might be hardy here and bear
> even
> in bad years. Even a cutting would be welcome.
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I suspect this tree will be available this coming Spring.
> Here is the URL I would look for it.
> http://www.sln.potsdam.ny.us
> These are the folks that have the good
> Saskatoons.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> It has not been a great fruit year -- apples have also set very poorly
> (including wild trees and usually reliable cultivars), no pears (not to
> mention quinces and medlars), few blueberries, dead apricots, no plums;
> grump. The bananas aren't doing well either. BUT there are currants,
> mulberries (surprising that, the trees are not really hardy but the buds
> must be tough), raspberries and, having rained heavily last week, it is
> `porcini' season so who cares!!
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What is 'porcini' season?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> Question:- Does anyone know which bird puts mushrooms in the trees? I
> suspect Bluejays, but have not caught them at it.
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What kinds of mushrooms do they put in the trees and how do
> they keep the wind from blowing them back onto the
> ground?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>These are the varieties of Sweet Cherries I thought would
> have the best chance of producing here in Northeast Wyoming:  Black
> Gold, White Gold, and Glacier. All on Gisela 5 rootstock. I chose them
> for 3 reasons: Hardiness, self fertile (no insects needed as wind will
> do the job in a cool spring), and fairly late blooming as compared to
> most sweet cherries. Also Black Gold supposedly has blooms that are more
> frost hardy than most sweet cherries. All of them are capable of
> producing cherries without the help of the others. That's why I didn't
> bother with Kristen (it needs a pollinator that blooms at the same
> time). The Gisela 5 root stock is being used on cherries that weren't
> grown commercially in the past as they were poor producers, but on
> Gisela 5 they are fine producers.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>  Rodney Eveland
>  Gillette, Wyoming
> 
> Ah, so many questions.
> 
> Richard Melrose