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["philip sauber" <mrtejas@lycos.com>]

What is ring budding?
Phil
--

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 02:41:08  
 Dr. Chiranjit Parmar wrote:
>Jujube, called BER in Hindi, is a fairly important commercial fruit crop in
>warm and dry parts of the North West India ( states of Punjab, Haryana and
>Rajasthan).  It is grown in this area since long and now its cultivation is
>is increasing every year.
>
>Here the plants are propagated by ring budding on the seedlings of wild BER
>which is very closely related to commercial BER, at the most may be another
>species of the genus Zizyphus as there has always been a controversy in the
>botanical classification of Zizyphus among taxonomists.
>
>I do not think that one needs to go that as  Cascara for finding a rootstock
>for jujube.
>
>Dr. Chiranjit Parmar
>Horticultural Consultant on Lesser Known Indian Fruits
>www.lesserknownindianplants.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Dr. Ethan Natelson <natelson@pipeline.com>
>To: <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 7:18 AM
>Subject: [NAFEX] Bearberry (Cascara sagrada)
>
>
>> Dear Group,
>>
>>      I was looking through "Pomona in Review, The First Year", and came
>> across an article by one of the founders of NAFEX, Milo Gibson.  He
>comments
>> concerning a grafting technique, "The only luck the writer has had putting
>> variety jujube on seedling jujube or on Cascara sagrada, a cousin of the
>> jujube, has been with this graft".  According to a reference source I
>have,
>> Cascara sagrada (also called bearberry, which is a name also applied to
>> certain Haws) is a type of Buckthorn (Rhamnus purshiana syn. Frangula
>> purshiana).  Does anyone know if, indeed, jujube is compatible with it as
>a
>> rootstock and, if so, any nursery that carries this plant?  The laxative
>> cascara, apparently comes from its seeds.
>>
>> Ethan Natelson
>> Houston, Texas
>>
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>
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>From kathrynwrites@yahoo.com  Tue Apr  1 22:45:33 2003
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From: kathryn stout <kathrynwrites@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] dormant vs summer pruning
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Tanis--
Well, no actually, no late frost--but the winter was
relatively mild--not much snow--until March. Which was
a continual blizzard. I figure that's got to be worst
possible timing for a tree--it might have not gone
deeply into dormancy, or been beginning to come out of
dormancy, when the March "winter" hit. 
So, I eventually replanted a new tree.
Thanks for asking
Kathryn
kathrynwrites@yahoo.com






--- tanis cuff <tanistanis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> K. Stout :
> Yes, summer pruning can be more an art than a
> science, but the key is to do 
> big prunings gradually.
> Also, removing large branches is stressful; so is
> pruning a little too late 
> in the growing season, and so is pushing the
> hardiness zone of cultivars.  
> And then the poor tree got toasted by a late frost
> ?!
> 
> tc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
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>From kathrynwrites@yahoo.com  Tue Apr  1 23:32:56 2003
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From: kathryn stout <kathrynwrites@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] powdery mildew
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I seem to recall that bicarbonate of soda is alkaline,
that's why it's called an antacid, why people take it
for excessive stomach acid or sour stomach. 
Kathryn
--- Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net> wrote:
> rooting wrote:
> 
> > The following ideas seem to be the most organic
> methods (for powdery mildew)
> >
> > <snip>
> > Milk
> > 10-20% skim milk to water ratio.  Milk seems to
> boost the plants immune
> > system to fight off fungi.  Apply liberally.
> <snip>
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Don't get the wrong idea about milk...  It does
> nothing for the plant other than to acidify the
> leaf surface as the milk breaks down.
> 
> You will note that all the techniques you listed
> change the PH of leaf surfaces; sulfur (lower
> PH), lime (raise PH), bicarbonate of soda (lower
> PH), and milk breaking down to acids (lower
> PH).  Powdery mildew can only survive in a narrow PH
> range.
> 
> If you ever have a concrete statue that you would
> like to cover with moss and lichens just pour
> milk over the concrete structure.  As the milk rots
> and breaks down it will acidify the surface
> of the concrete and make it more hospitable for moss
> and lichens, giving the appearance of being
> ancient.  I may take a number of appliations of milk
> over a couple of months.
> 
> Later,
> Tom.
> 
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>From kathrynwrites@yahoo.com  Tue Apr  1 23:57:54 2003
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From: kathryn stout <kathrynwrites@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Three strikes and you are out
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
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I figure if I try something once and it doesn't work,
I want to know why--to do it differently and better
the next time. When do I give up? Not easily. The
point isn't harvesting fruit, it's learning how to
grow fruit. That philosophy sustained me for three
years of no fruit while I researched and experimented
with organic control for the plum circulio. I did
figure something out, and I do get fruit--without
pesticides. I don't give up easily.
Kathryn
Kathrynwrites@yahoo.com
--- Joe Hecksel <jhecksel@voyager.net> wrote:
> Three strikes and you are out
> A statistical justification for a common
> rule-of-thumb
> 
> One of the activities that we teach our children is
> to build 
> campfires.  Building campfires are lessons in
> craftsmenship, materials, 
> luck, statistics, safety, patience and persistance.
> One of the 
> beautiful things about a campfire is that it
> provides unfiltered 
> feedback to the lighter.  It either lit or it
> fizzled.  
> 
> Sometimes patience is learned by the parent.  My boy
> was reaching for 
> his 18th match when I felt a need to comment.  "You
> know, chances are 
> that the 18th match will not work if the first 17
> did not.  A lot of 
> people would have made some changes to the set-up
> after the third try."
> 
> My son, who tends to be legalistic asked, "Why
> three?"
> 
> Indeed, why three?
> 
>
************************************************************
> 
> Imagine you want to grow ABC berries, a new kind of
> fruit.  You have 
> been successful with many other kinds of fruit
> although you never tried 
> ABC berries.  You assume that you have a 50% or
> better chance of 
> success based on your other ventures.
> 
> For the purposes of this essay 50% chance of success
> means that if you 
> were able to plant 1,000,000 plantings over 100
> years time, randomly 
> sprinkled over your site, that half of them would
> live long enough to 
> produce fruit.
> 
> This is called the hypothesis.  The null hypothesis
> is that less than 
> half of them will succeed.
> 
> So you make your first planting.  They die.  Hey,
> based on your 
> hypothesis it was a flip of the coin whether they
> would survive or 
> not.  No big deal.
> 
> Then you make your second planting.  They die. 
> Given your hypothesis, 
> the chances of that happening are 0.5 X 0.5 or 25%. 
> Hmmmmm.
> 
> Then you make your third planting.  They die. 
> Chances of that 
> happening are 12.5% given your hypothesis.  Playing
> fast and loose with 
> statistical terminology, you now have enough
> information to say that 
> you are about 90% certain that you do not have a
> reasonable (+50%) 
> chance of successfully growing ABC berries.
> 
> So you stop wasting money on blueberry plants. 
> Ooops, ABC berries.
> 
> Caveats:  
> -I still plant M&M and Skittle seeds because the
> cost is so low and the 
> potential payoff is so high.  Sometimes it makes
> economic sense to 
> exceed three strikes.  Matches are cheap if you have
> a box of 
> them.....so maybe three is not written in stone for
> lighting a fire.
> -Random rewards train people to be more persistant. 
> Suppose you have a 
> site with a great deal of variation in soil and
> exposure.  You may have 
> had many experiences where you were not successful
> until the second or 
> third (or 4th or 5th) attempt.  You *know* you can
> be successful if you 
> try enough spots.
> -Extreme uniformity trains people to be less
> persistant.  Suppose you 
> have a site that is extremely uniform.  What
> advantage is there to 
> trying out 2 other locations on the site?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joe Hecksel
> Personal Webpage http://my.voyager.net/~jhecksel
> 
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>From lostman_amiga@yahoo.com  Wed Apr  2 07:52:00 2003
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Subject: [NAFEX] Nanking problems
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Does anyone ever have any desiese problems with their
nanking cherries?  I have noticed an increased problem
with what look to be some kind of blight(?).  This
occurs right after flower-fall. Some of the tip
branches begin to wilt and dry-up at a length of 2-10
inches down the branch.  I have not noticed any bore
holes. I thought it may be fire blight, but there is
no  blackening of the leaves. Any forming fruit on the
branch will start turning  a redish brown color.

Any ideas?

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>From organic101@linkny.com  Wed Apr  2 08:23:34 2003
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Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:23:55 -0500
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] apricot
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I have Harlayne. Harogem, Goldcot, and Hargrand apricots planted. These 
have suffered from wildly erratic weather (including several years of 
severe drought with little to no irrigation water available, and several 
winters/springs of wildly oscillating temperatures, in a location 
borderline for apricot), and also from my 
ignorance/incompetence/neglect. They are under organic management, but I 
knew little about growing tree fruits when I planted them, and since 
then have been concentrating mostly on the vegetable crops and 
strawberries. Many of the trees have died. The best survivors are 
Harlayne and Goldcot, but flavor on the Goldcot here is so poor they're 
not worth picking, totally bland and mushy texture. The flavor on 
Harlayne is fantastic, and my opinion of the others' flavor may suffer 
from the comparison. They all seem to pollinate fine, though at this 
point some of the surviving trees are 25' or more from their nearest 
neighbors. We get a variety of pollinating insects; I don't know what 
all of them are, but they include honeybee, what I'm fairly sure is 
orchard mason bee, and some that look like small flies.

--Rivka
Finger Lakes NY; zone 5 mostly

On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 10:10 PM, kathryn stout wrote:
>
> I got good fruit (and a very vigorous tree) from a
> Harcot (supposedly dwarf but it was at least 12 feet
> tall and still growing, 7 years old , when the
> woodchucks got it--burrowed under and ate the roots).
> THE FRUIT  was very good. I had to graft it with
> Goldcot for cross-pollination. (Decided to do that
> after reading the NAFEX library file on apricots.
> Apparently the best varieties vary, from one region to
> another, and claims to self-pollination--phooey. Plant
> two varieties close enough for their branches to cross
> or else graft more than one variety on one tree.
> Kurle? in Chicago? got apricots that way, that's what
> I remember reading. I tried it and it worked. Here, in
> Massachusetts. I had a Harcot tree I grafted with
> Moorpark, Goldcot, Jersey, and something else. The
> Jersey and something else didn't take, the Moorpark
> and Goldcot did, but the Goldcot was the star of
> pollination. The year after the Goldcot branch died
> (early warning of woodchuck damage--one branch wilts
> and dries up, in summer--no amount of water revives
> it)
> the Harcot didn't set fruit. But when the Goldcot
> bloomed, the Harcot bloomed, the fruit was good, on
> the Goldcot--and ambrosial on the Harcot.
> I am still getting over that woodchuck last
> summer--not
> over it yet.
>
> Kathryn
> kathrynwrites@yahoo.com
>
>