North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["Lon J. Rombough" <lonrom@hevanet.com>]

According to the literature and tests I found when I was doing my grape
book, that's one of the better uses for Surround - it blocks feeding of the
beetles, though they will still be in the area.
-Lon Rombough
Grapes, writing, consulting, more, plus word on my grape book at
http://www.hevanet.com/lonrom  

----------
>From: "Bill Russell" <shaman@penn.com>
>To: <nafex@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [nafex] "SURROUND"
>Date: Sun, Apr 29, 2001, 6:48 AM
>

>Will SURROUND protect grapevines from Japanese beetles?
>
>Bill
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard J. Ossolinski" <osso@acadia.net>
>To: <nafex@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 8:06 AM
>Subject: Re: [nafex] "SURROUND"
>
>
>> Probably more than you wanted, but perhaps this will help.  Scroll to the
>end
>> to see the message that elicited this response from John Mosko at
>Englehard
>> Corp (manufacturers of Surround.)
>> Richard
>> >
>> > Gosh Lee, wish you had given us a call earlier for guidance.  Sorry that
>> > you had trouble.
>> >
>> > With any new technology, there are benefits and there are going to be
>> > challenges, if the  benefits  outweigh any problems, the technology will
>> > fly.  So far we've been very, very lucky with the particle film
>technology
>> > and problems have been solvable.
>> >
>> > Lee, if you are up to trying it again, for your case, I suggest maybe a
>> > Honeycrisp or Jonagold trial that uses applications starting at petal
>fall
>> > - and then cut off sprays earlier, or, consider ways to improve the
>fruit
>> > cleaning.  You may try it on your Hawkeye for the fun of it.  I explain
>> > more below.
>> >
>> > I'll comment, off the cuff, on the points you brought up...
>> >
>> > Sunburn - No doubt, Surround WP cuts sunburn damage dramatically,
>> > importantly,  while increasing  or, at least, not reducing
>photosynthesis.
>> > The hotter and less humid the region, the more potential payback.
>Studies
>> > and  grower results in 1999 and 2000 in hot apple growing regions around
>> > the world show at least 50% and up to 60 to 80% reduction in damage.
>Even
>> > in the coolest of seasons like 1999, severe sunburn damage in WA is
>still
>> > around 10%.  In most years, and on some cultivars, the severe damage
>> > approaches 20%, and can be higher.  CA damage would be even higher.
>> > Surround WP can give a nice investment payback - $60 to 100 worth of
>> > Surround WP sprays for sunburn can pay 10 to 20X on sunburn damage
>> > reduction (not to mention cutting down on insect damage during the
>> > treatment period).  About half of current Surround WP commercial use
>thus
>> > far is for sunburn reduction on apples mostly in the western US and we
>> > expect this application to grow sharply based on this season's success.
>> >
>> > Mixing - We have heard of a handful of growers having problems with
>mixing
>> > in the powder but the vast majority have no problems at all.  The most
>> > common reasons are low agitation, weak pump returns, or adding the
>powder
>> > too fast.  We have a Spray Guide which offers tips. To give guidance,
>we'll
>> > need to know the specifics of the sprayer.
>> >
>> > Color - Our data and experience is that color usually improves, i.e.,
>> > redder red apples and greener green apples, or at least neutral. I don't
>> > know what to make of your experience.  Staymans, Empire, and Pink Lady
>in
>> > particular have been seen to be redder.  We don't 'push' the color
>> > improvement benefit.  To determine predictable color effects you really
>> > need to do replicated studies in multiple years, in multiple regions -
>then
>> > there are all the cultivars.  This is very costly and time-consuming
>> > research, obviously.
>> > We learned  in 'Empire' studies that color improvement is linked to
>> > applications made from petal fall to about the 5th or 6th cover.
>> > Curiously, this immediate post-petal fall period coverage is crucial for
>> > color improvement with Surround WP.
>> >
>> > Washing - Yeh, can't win right?  Some say it washes off the trees too
>> > easily and then there's the post-harvest washing issue.
>> >
>> > Here's the skinny on Surround WP washing off:
>> >
>> > Surround had a limited launch in 1999 and Surround WP became fully
>> > commercial in 2000 and we've already treated a heck of a lot of apples,
>> > pears, and lemons (over 60,000 acre treatments in 2000).  At least 50
>> > packing lines have handled it and yes, especially in 1999, a few of the
>50
>> > had problems.  Most of the problems have been worked out based on our
>> > advice and I've heard next to no complaints in 2000 (a few packing
>houses
>> > with short lines did not take Surround-treated fruit because they feel
>that
>> > they can't clean it at present).
>> >
>> > Packing lines with sufficient brush beds, a dump tank in which to add
>> > optional fruit washing detergent, and, best of all, high pressure
>washing
>> > have no problems at all.  Fruit wax, if you use it, makes any faint haze
>> > invisible.
>> >
>> > Based on the economic benefits like the one mentioned above in sunburn,
>or
>> > the dramatic increase in yield for organic growers, an economical
>retro-fit
>> > of high pressure sprays would be very easily justified.  Our standard
>> > literature packet has a Fruit Washing Guide that is loaded with tips on
>> > fruit washing.  Get one at www.surround.engelhard.com
>> >
>> > If you don't wash at all you can apply from petal fall and go until
>about
>> > the 4th to 6th cover, then you'll have to stop.  This early-only program
>> > cuts 1st generation codling moth and early plum curculio damage and also
>> > may lead to better color - see color comments above.
>> >
>> > By the way, traces of Surround WP are not a problem health wise.
>Surround
>> > WP is composed of ingredients used in food and it is considered to be
>> > "exempt from requirements of a tolerance for residues."  So Surround WP
>> > residues on processing apples are not at issue.
>> >
>> > Consumers - Clearly, you want to sell clean fruit without a white
>> > appearance to consumers and successful washing, or cutting off late
>season
>> > sprays hopefully will take care of that.
>> > I have seen growers turn the white orchard treatments into a positive.
>To
>> > aid growers and packers in explaining this new product, we have a
>> > newly-available consumer-oriented flyer called "Why are the crops
>white?"
>> > It explains, in a non-technical way, the benefits to growers and
>comments
>> > favorably on basic safety and environment questions.  It can also be
>> > requested on www.surround.engelhard.com
>> >
>> > While I'm at it, a few updates:
>> >
>> > Plum Curculio - Is Surround WP a solution for organic plum curculio
>> > management?  There's no doubt that Surround WP has a strong
>ovipositional
>> > deterrent effect on PC and we've labeled it for 'suppression."  The key
>is
>> > to build a coating onto the young fruitlet and reapply if it is
>unusually
>> > rainy.
>> > Here's what we've seen in 2000 trials: In MI, NY, and New England this
>> > season was extremely rainy right around petal fall.  Some locations in
>NY
>> > had precipitation, I believe, 10 straight days around petal fall.  Light
>> > rains are not as much a problem but if the applications were not
>> > supplemented after heavy rains, efficacy dropped off from 1999 results
>> > (interestingly, other pesticide efficacy dropped off as well in one
>study).
>> > Growers that  kept the coating on had very good suppresion.  Another
>grower
>> > observed that the coverage must be maintained through the entire
>> > ovipositional period; and this is true.  A grower said that applications
>> > late in the bloom period seemed to keep the PC out of the orchard even
>> > before fruit set.
>> >
>> > What about rainfastness?    We had to design Surround WP so that it is
>> > reasonably rainfast while being friable enough to cling to insects and
>> > removable at harvest.  This was a tough challenge.
>> > Surround protection is more residual that many think.  In a rainy
>season,
>> > true, reapplications are necessary and  2000 was easily a worst case
>basis.
>> > In dry periods it lasts indefinitely, and efficacy on such pests as
>> > Japanese beetle appear to last far past the point where there is a
>highly
>> > visible film.
>> > A few points:
>> > Firstly, resist the temptation to add a sticker, this may cause more
>> > problems and reduce insect efficacy.
>> > Applications on the young fruitlets haven't developed yet into a
>rainfast
>> > film, hence the need for reapplication.
>> > Applications made in the month after petal fall are more apt to be
>lasting.
>> > Applications that begin in mid-summer don't generally adhere as well.
>So
>> > if applying for apple maggot, it would be better to start earlier rather
>> > than begin just before AM emergence.
>> > Growers are observing that lime-sulfur and wettable sulfur increase
>> > adhesion.
>> >
>> > Lep Control - In general, I'd like to make it clear that leps are only
>> > partly suppressed.  It has been observed that the first generations of
>> > codling moth and oriental fruit moth are significantly suppressed by
>> > Surround, but the second and "suicide" generation are not. Some
>attribute
>> > this to the egg laying habits of moths, i.e., the first generation lands
>> > near the fruit and get gummed up as it proceeds to the fruit.  The later
>> > generations appear to land directly on the fruit, often near the calex
>and
>> > sting where Surround is less likely to be present.  All in all, more or
>> > less 50% reduction of damage can be attained in a seasonal program.
>> > Supplements are necessary.
>> >
>> > Off Topic - Pears - For pear psylla, a successful control program starts
>> > with dormant oil, then use Surround WP for two to three pre-bloom
>sprays,
>> > again at PF, and continue with covers.  If washing is at issue, simply
>> > switch to a different control after the second or third cover.
>> > Surround WP works as well or better, frankly, than anything else out
>there
>> > for pear psylla  and has great economics compared to other programs.
>This
>> > is another solid commercial success for Surround WP.
>> > Rainfastness on pears, by the way, is much better than apple.  Adhesion
>on
>> > pear is better and the psylla nymphs inhabit the leaf undersides where
>> > Surround doesn't wash off as easily.  Psylla studies in the rainy 2000
>> > season in the eastern US still showed control.
>> >
>> > Research in Progress - Diseases - Surround WP, by itself,  is not
>> > efficacious on many diseases but new data suggests another possible
>value
>> > of Surround.  A replicated study on 'Delicious' done in WV shows marked
>> > improvement of fungus control with sulfur compounds when tankmixed with
>> > Surround WP.  Scab, powdery mildew, sooty blotch, and flyspeck control
>were
>> > all significantly improved in this experiment that used 1/2 gallon of
>> > lime-sulfur (calcium polysulfide liquid) and 4 lbs of wettable sulfur
>per
>> > 50 lbs of Surround WP in 100 gallons of water.
>> >
>> > 2000 Insect Data - Extension data is showing excellent control of apple
>> > maggot, Japanese beetle, lachynobia, and Rose Chafer with Surround WP.
>> >
>> > Research in Progress - Honeycrisp - In theory, I say in theory, Surround
>> > can be a benefit to this wonderfully crunchy but sometimes troublesome
>> > cultivar.  Honeycrisp likes a cool climate and Surround will keep the
>tree
>> > cooler while thwarting leafhoppers and Japanese beetle.  We will be
>> > studying this further to determine if Surround WP can benefit this
>cultivar
>> > and what timings/rates would be needed to accomplish this.
>> >
>> > Before using Surround products, I would suggest reading through our
>Guides,
>> > in essence this barrier-effect concept seems simple, but for best usage,
>> > there are key tips that you'll need to know.
>> >
>> > John Mosko
>> > Surround Crop Protectants
>> > Engelhard Corporation
>> >
>> > applehilorchard@webtv.net (Lee Elliott)@virtualorchard.net> on
>11/02/2000
>> > 07:48:32 AM
>> >
>> > Please respond to "Apple-Crop" <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net>
>> >
>> > Sent by:  <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net>
>> >
>> > To:   apple-crop@virtualorchard.net (Apple-Crop)
>> > cc:
>> > Subject:  Apple-Crop: Re: Surround Trial
>> >
>> > This season I used Surround on a trial basis on 20  Honeycrisp , Galas,
>> > and Jonagold trees.  It aparently reduced sunburn on all.  However, it
>> > has it's own problems.  This stuff is VERY hard to get mixed up in the
>> > sprayer and kept clogging the agitator.  Fruit did'nt color up well
>> > compared to unsprayed trees,  but the biggest problem  (the killer) is
>> > that the stuff won't wash off well in the packing line.  A film of
>> > material in the stem cavity won't wash out,  making the apple look like
>> > a fungus is down in the stem cavity,  Bad enough customers don't want
>> > these apples.  Some remarked that they thought it might be chemical
>> > residue and passed these over.  It doesn't wash off in rain either,
>> > contrary to what some have said.  If someone can figure out how to get
>> > this product out of the stem cavity  they may be on to something.  I
>> > doubt I will use it again.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
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