North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["R. Keith Etheridge" <grandpa@chipsnet.com>]

If you plant multi-flora rose it will generally proliferate throughout your
pasture and is dificult to controll.
Prior to the fifties osage orange was a common living fence through central
Illinois and was effective but required maintanance so was largely removed,
although I still have a quarter mile.Osage orange is somewhat a weed in
pastures but is easier controlled.As a vet in the fifties ,it wasn't that
unusual to have in the fall a cow that swallowed a hedge ball whole,stuck in
the esophagus that required being pushed into the rumen with a big diameter
stomach tube.If any one needs seeds, I could probably  find some unless the
ssquirels have ate them all.As far as thorny trees as a deterant nothing
beats honey locust.








----- Original Message -----
From: <nafex@yahoogroups.com>
To: <nafex@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:06 AM
Subject: [nafex] Digest Number 701



There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Quince Report
           From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
      2. Re: Poor Man's Fertilizer
           From: Lucky Pittman <Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu>
      3. Re: Quince Report
           From: "Lon J. Rombough" <lonrom@hevanet.com>
      4. After two nights was (Re: algae)
           From: "Christopher Mauchline" <mauch1@aol.com>
      5. Old Saying
           From: "Gordon Nofs" <gc_nofs@hotmail.com>
      6. RE: Freeze damage to apples
           From: Gene Spears <Spears@LMC.edu>
      7. Natural fencing Suggestions
           From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
      8. RE: Natural fencing Suggestions
           From: "Raby, Brian {20-4~Indianapolis}" <BRIAN.RABY@ROCHE.COM>
      9. RE: Natural fencing Suggestions
           From: Tom Volkening <volkenin@mail.lib.msu.edu>
     10. RE: Natural fencing Suggestions
           From: Tom Volkening <volkenin@mail.lib.msu.edu>
     11. Re: Natural fencing Suggestions
           From: "Christopher Mauchline" <mauch1@aol.com>
     12. Re: Natural fencing Suggestions
           From: hector black <hblack@TWLakes.Net>
     13. natural fencing
           From: "Mark Garrison" <pawpaw1@home.com>
     14. Re: Natural fencing Suggestions
           From: "kevin poland" <kvpoland@midmaine.com>
     15. Re: Natural fencing Suggestions
           From: "Gordon Nofs" <gc_nofs@hotmail.com>
     16. Re: Natural fence, Homo ATaVistica
           From: jhecksel@voyager.net
     17. Re: Natural fencing Suggestions
           From: Joe Boles <jobo@istar.ca>
     18. Re: Natural fencing Suggestions
           From: "Steve Shambeda" <sshambeda@paonline.com>
     19. scions and rootstock
           From: "carolyn wood" <natvwine@cut.net>
     20. RE: Natural fencing Suggestions
           From: rick valley <bamboogrove@cmug.com>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:16:02 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
Subject: Quince Report

Hi All,

This report is for Lon, but thought I would share it.

Of the 36 nonastrigent quince seeds;

   *    24 have sprouted and now have true leaves

   *    10 have sprouted and have seed leaves

   *     2 are still in the fridge, refusing to
         break dormancy

I kept the seeds in the fridge with a small amount of vermiculite, and had
rinsed the seeds with Wilson, Fruit Tree Spray (really just needed the
Furbam, 2ml to a cup of water).  The seeds were kept in a glass jar,
barely damp.  After 60 days, the first 24 broke dormancy and 10 days after
that the remaining 10 broke.  I hold little hope for the last 2 as they
appear inferior to the other seeds.

All seeds were treated with 1/8th teaspoon of myco fungi when I put them
into soil.  So far all the seedlings look great.

Did you (Lon) mention how to feed these seedlings?  The myco fungi do not
like man made fertilizer, and I cannot get organic plant food locally
(unless I drive into Kitchener).  All I have access to is manure, and bone
meal, but I am unsure how to use these on bottom watered seedlings in the
basement, under lights.  Usually I use man made fertilizer)

Believe it or not, I live in an agricultural area (commercial) and
organics are considered a "quaint notion", but I have access to pig and
cow manure, but unsure how to use it inside the house.  When bringing
manure into indoor conditions should it be sterilized on the BBQ?  How?
What is the best mix for manure tea used in watering seedlings indoors?

Thanks,
Tom

--
Thomas Olenio
Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:27:58 -0500
   From: Lucky Pittman <Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu>
Subject: Re: Poor Man's Fertilizer

At 07:54 PM 04/18/2001 -0400, Joe Hecksel wrote:
>In the frozen North, early spring N availability due to decaying organic
>material is limited by soil temperature.  Most soil is not biologically
>very active at temperatures below 50F (about 10C).  There is just not
>that much N being freed up from decaying organic sources.  This 50F/10C
>number is a very interesting number.  That is the soil temperature that
>is associated with the start of corn/maize germination, lamb survival
>(per Joe Rook) and the air temp associated with accumulation of degree
>days for fruit trees.  In my neck of the woods, that occurs between
>April 15 and May 1.

Thanks, Joe.
Having grown up in the Deep South, where I can't recall more than a couple
of snows deeper than 2" in my first 30 years down there (and none persisted
more than a couple of days), we didn't get much of that "Poor man's
fertilizer".  Even up here in the frigid northland(southern west-central
KY! LOL) snows are not too frequent, heavy, or persistent.

The row-crop farmers have been planting corn, here, for better than a
month. I didn't notice how much, if any, damage the frosts/freezes of the
past two nights did to the corn I pass on the way to work - some of it's
close to a foot tall.
However, my hardy kiwis, raspberries, cucumbertree magnolias and newly
leafing oaks are all sporting wilted black foliage this morning.


Lucky Pittman
USDA Zone 6
Hopkinsville, KY



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 06:58:57 -0700
   From: "Lon J. Rombough" <lonrom@hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: Quince Report

Sounds like you are doing fine, Tom.  As to fertilizer, you could always use
manure tea - just add water to a bucket of manure so the material is covered
at least three or more inches (above the top of the manure).  Let it steep
overnight.  If you think the resulting liquid is strong, dilute it at least
50-50 with water.
-Lon
Grapes, writing, consulting, more, plus word on my grape book at
http://www.hevanet.com/lonrom

Join the Garden Writers List
To subscribe, send a blank message to: Gardenwriters-subscribe@topica.com
List Info:  http://www.topica.com/lists/Gardenwriters


----------
>From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
>To: nafex@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [nafex] Quince Report
>Date: Thu, Apr 19, 2001, 6:16 AM
>

>Hi All,
>
>This report is for Lon, but thought I would share it.
>
>Of the 36 nonastrigent quince seeds;
>
>   *    24 have sprouted and now have true leaves
>
>   *    10 have sprouted and have seed leaves
>
>   *     2 are still in the fridge, refusing to
>         break dormancy
>
>I kept the seeds in the fridge with a small amount of vermiculite, and had
>rinsed the seeds with Wilson, Fruit Tree Spray (really just needed the
>Furbam, 2ml to a cup of water).  The seeds were kept in a glass jar,
>barely damp.  After 60 days, the first 24 broke dormancy and 10 days after
>that the remaining 10 broke.  I hold little hope for the last 2 as they
>appear inferior to the other seeds.
>
>All seeds were treated with 1/8th teaspoon of myco fungi when I put them
>into soil.  So far all the seedlings look great.
>
>Did you (Lon) mention how to feed these seedlings?  The myco fungi do not
>like man made fertilizer, and I cannot get organic plant food locally
>(unless I drive into Kitchener).  All I have access to is manure, and bone
>meal, but I am unsure how to use these on bottom watered seedlings in the
>basement, under lights.  Usually I use man made fertilizer)
>
>Believe it or not, I live in an agricultural area (commercial) and
>organics are considered a "quaint notion", but I have access to pig and
>cow manure, but unsure how to use it inside the house.  When bringing
>manure into indoor conditions should it be sterilized on the BBQ?  How?
>What is the best mix for manure tea used in watering seedlings indoors?
>
>Thanks,
>Tom
>
>--
>Thomas Olenio
>Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:39:42 -0000
   From: "Christopher Mauchline" <mauch1@aol.com>
Subject: After two nights was (Re: algae)

> Chris, I'll be out putting buckets of water out too--apricot/plum
hybrids
> in particular.  Hope the forecasters are wrong.

This time around the forecasters were dead on.
First night: snow, temps at 32 degrees.
Last night: temps down to 27 degrees.

Last night had sprinklers on Japanese Plums, miniature lights and
some towels on apricot, covered 6 of the 12 blueberries with jugs
under the covers and covered 6 ornamental plantings.  The other six
blueberries really need one more year of not cropping, so I thought I
let nature handle it :-)  I'm not sure how things will turn out yet,
but when I took off the coverings before I left for work things
didn't look too bad.  The jugs of water hadn't frozen, so we'll see.

What apricot/plum hybrids do you have?

Chris Mauchline
SE PA, zone 6

--- In nafex@y..., "sbrenman@n..." <sbrenman@n...> wrote:
> I've been skimming heavy algae blooms off of the farm pond, letting
it dry
> out on the bank and then applying it around  fruit trees.  ( the
algae is
> probably so abundant due to fertillizer runoff from the neighboring
> farm.)   I wonder what kind of analysis algae has for NPK etc.
>
> Chris, I'll be out putting buckets of water out too--apricot/plum
hybrids
> in particular.  Hope the forecasters are wrong.
>
> Scott
>
>
> NetZero Platinum
> No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access
> Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
> http://www.netzero.net



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:05:35 -0400
   From: "Gordon Nofs" <gc_nofs@hotmail.com>
Subject: Old Saying

I thought I would question "Farmer's Almanac" people and this is their
reply.
      Gordon
************************************************
----Original Message Follows----
From: pgeiger@geiger.com
To: "Gordon C. Nofs"
Subject: Re: Old Saying

This is an old, old saying. My Dad had a friend who helped with the almanac
for many years. Ken is now 98 years old. The saying has to do with snow
(bigger flakes) drawing nutrients from the atmosphere and then
"fertilizing" gardens. I have read that this is not true. I like the
saying..... Since it happens in the spring and gardens grow soon
thereafter, I'll say it is accurate. Make it easier to tolerate those late
storms.
******************************************************************

                     "Gordon C. Nofs"                                   To:
    questions@farmersalmanac.com      Subject: Old Saying

                     "Yup-Poor man's fertilizer"
   Does anyone know where this comes from and what it means?
Gordon C. Nofs



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:20:57 -0400
   From: Gene Spears <Spears@LMC.edu>
Subject: RE: Freeze damage to apples

This last cold snap made me glad fruit growing is only a hobby & not
a livelihood!  Three days ago I had plum & peach trees covered with blossems
(some for the 1st time) and swarming with bees.  Today, drooping, brown,
gooey masses cover the limbs.  One bad 48 hour period can undo one or two
years worth of waiting.....
On to my question.  Up here (high elevation WNC), the apple trees
had bud clusters & rosettes of pale green leaves around the buds.  The
leaves are obviously dead, but the buds still look OK.  Are the buds likely
to open?  If flowering occurs, will enough new leaves come out soon enough
to support the young fruit?

thanks,

gene
spears@lmc.edu


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:00:40 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
Subject: Natural fencing Suggestions

Hello All,

I would like some "living fence" ideas, to keep out unwanted ATV's, ATC's
and dirt bikes.

The gap is about 50' wide, under a bridge, running east west, so there is
plenty of sun except under the bridge.

People with no respect for property cut the fence under the bridge
regardless of there being cattle in the field, to get there fill of fun on
their machines in the pasture, destroying the grass the cattle feed on,
and presenting a legal injury problem.

At first I liked poison ivy and those sorts of things, but that may be too
cruel for even these people.

Any suggestions on a very cruel, thornded, fast growing plant/shrub/cane
that will (over time) fill the gap 50' on the south side, and grow under
the bridge?

I still like the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac approach, but
part of me says not to do it.  But i am sure there is no law against
planting such things on your own property. (evil grin)

Under the bridge is also a haven for kids doing drugs, and I want to kill
that idea too.  There must be some good choices to make that a nasty place
to pass through, or be in.

Even thought of keeping a fresh dead skunk under there.

Hardiness zone 6a, southwest Ontario, spring flooding, damp/dry all
summer, full south sun, shaded under bridge structure.

Cuttings appreciated!  (of nasty thorned plants [smile])  Father inlaw is
getting tired of replacing the fence and chasing cattle at age 75.
Thought I could help with a living fence to protect the strands of barbed
wire that cover the gap and run over the water, keeping the cattle in and
forming a river gate.

Thanks,
Tom

--
Thomas Olenio
Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:02:58 -0400
   From: "Raby, Brian {20-4~Indianapolis}" <BRIAN.RABY@ROCHE.COM>
Subject: RE: Natural fencing Suggestions

Tom,

Here's an article I found about a hedgeapple or Osage Orange:

Before the invention of barbed wire in the 1880's, many thousands of miles
of hedge were constructed by planting young Osage Orange trees closely
together in a line.   The saplings were aggressively pruned to promote bushy
growth.  "Horse high, bull strong and hog tight."   Those were the criteria
for a good hedge made with Osage Orange.  Tall enough that a horse would not
jump it, stout enough that a bull would not push through it and woven so
tightly that even a hog could not find its way through!  After barbed wire
made hedge fences obsolete, the trees still found use as a source of
unbeatable fence posts.  The wood is strong and so dense that it will
neither rot nor succumb to the attacks of termites or other insects for
decades.  The trees also found use as an effective component of windbreaks
and shelterbelts.   They are a rather thorny plant, if I'm not mistaken.

Another tree to consider is the Hawthorn.  I have "stuck" myself with these
several times and it does not tickle.  Very long, needle sharp thorns on
these.

Brian
Sheridan, IN

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Olenio [mailto:tolenio@sentex.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 2:01 PM
To: nafex@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nafex] Natural fencing Suggestions


Hello All,

I would like some "living fence" ideas, to keep out unwanted ATV's, ATC's
and dirt bikes.

The gap is about 50' wide, under a bridge, running east west, so there is
plenty of sun except under the bridge.

People with no respect for property cut the fence under the bridge
regardless of there being cattle in the field, to get there fill of fun on
their machines in the pasture, destroying the grass the cattle feed on,
and presenting a legal injury problem.

At first I liked poison ivy and those sorts of things, but that may be too
cruel for even these people.

Any suggestions on a very cruel, thornded, fast growing plant/shrub/cane
that will (over time) fill the gap 50' on the south side, and grow under
the bridge?

I still like the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac approach, but
part of me says not to do it.  But i am sure there is no law against
planting such things on your own property. (evil grin)

Under the bridge is also a haven for kids doing drugs, and I want to kill
that idea too.  There must be some good choices to make that a nasty place
to pass through, or be in.

Even thought of keeping a fresh dead skunk under there.

Hardiness zone 6a, southwest Ontario, spring flooding, damp/dry all
summer, full south sun, shaded under bridge structure.

Cuttings appreciated!  (of nasty thorned plants [smile])  Father inlaw is
getting tired of replacing the fence and chasing cattle at age 75.
Thought I could help with a living fence to protect the strands of barbed
wire that cover the gap and run over the water, keeping the cattle in and
forming a river gate.

Thanks,
Tom

--
Thomas Olenio
Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a




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[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:21:40 -0400
   From: Tom Volkening <volkenin@mail.lib.msu.edu>
Subject: RE: Natural fencing Suggestions

Tom,
I would second the idea of using the Osage Orange as a living fence.  It is
supposed to be hardy to zone 5 so it should grow in your area.  This web
page has information about the Osage Orange and links to other pages with
information.  I can remember seeing them growing in Indiana when kid
visiting relatives in the summer.

Tom Volkening
Engineering Library
1515 Engineering Building
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1226
Phone:  517-432-1498
Fax:      517-353-9041
Email:    volkenin@msu.edu
              volkenin@egr.msu.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Olenio [mailto:tolenio@sentex.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:01 PM
To: nafex@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nafex] Natural fencing Suggestions


Hello All,

I would like some "living fence" ideas, to keep out unwanted ATV's, ATC's
and dirt bikes.

The gap is about 50' wide, under a bridge, running east west, so there is
plenty of sun except under the bridge.

People with no respect for property cut the fence under the bridge
regardless of there being cattle in the field, to get there fill of fun on
their machines in the pasture, destroying the grass the cattle feed on,
and presenting a legal injury problem.

At first I liked poison ivy and those sorts of things, but that may be too
cruel for even these people.

Any suggestions on a very cruel, thornded, fast growing plant/shrub/cane
that will (over time) fill the gap 50' on the south side, and grow under
the bridge?

I still like the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac approach, but
part of me says not to do it.  But i am sure there is no law against
planting such things on your own property. (evil grin)

Under the bridge is also a haven for kids doing drugs, and I want to kill
that idea too.  There must be some good choices to make that a nasty place
to pass through, or be in.

Even thought of keeping a fresh dead skunk under there.

Hardiness zone 6a, southwest Ontario, spring flooding, damp/dry all
summer, full south sun, shaded under bridge structure.

Cuttings appreciated!  (of nasty thorned plants [smile])  Father inlaw is
getting tired of replacing the fence and chasing cattle at age 75.
Thought I could help with a living fence to protect the strands of barbed
wire that cover the gap and run over the water, keeping the cattle in and
forming a river gate.

Thanks,
Tom

--
Thomas Olenio
Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:25:39 -0400
   From: Tom Volkening <volkenin@mail.lib.msu.edu>
Subject: RE: Natural fencing Suggestions

Sorry I forgot to put in the URL for the web page with information about the
Osage Orange the fingers got ahead of the brain.
http://www.gpnc.org/osage.htm

Tom Volkening
Engineering Library
1515 Engineering Building
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1226
Phone:  517-432-1498
Fax:      517-353-9041
Email:    volkenin@msu.edu
              volkenin@egr.msu.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Olenio [mailto:tolenio@sentex.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:01 PM
To: nafex@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nafex] Natural fencing Suggestions


Hello All,

I would like some "living fence" ideas, to keep out unwanted ATV's, ATC's
and dirt bikes.

The gap is about 50' wide, under a bridge, running east west, so there is
plenty of sun except under the bridge.

People with no respect for property cut the fence under the bridge
regardless of there being cattle in the field, to get there fill of fun on
their machines in the pasture, destroying the grass the cattle feed on,
and presenting a legal injury problem.

At first I liked poison ivy and those sorts of things, but that may be too
cruel for even these people.

Any suggestions on a very cruel, thornded, fast growing plant/shrub/cane
that will (over time) fill the gap 50' on the south side, and grow under
the bridge?

I still like the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac approach, but
part of me says not to do it.  But i am sure there is no law against
planting such things on your own property. (evil grin)

Under the bridge is also a haven for kids doing drugs, and I want to kill
that idea too.  There must be some good choices to make that a nasty place
to pass through, or be in.

Even thought of keeping a fresh dead skunk under there.

Hardiness zone 6a, southwest Ontario, spring flooding, damp/dry all
summer, full south sun, shaded under bridge structure.

Cuttings appreciated!  (of nasty thorned plants [smile])  Father inlaw is
getting tired of replacing the fence and chasing cattle at age 75.
Thought I could help with a living fence to protect the strands of barbed
wire that cover the gap and run over the water, keeping the cattle in and
forming a river gate.

Thanks,
Tom

--
Thomas Olenio
Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:33:12 -0000
   From: "Christopher Mauchline" <mauch1@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Natural fencing Suggestions

Another posibility, although I hesitate to suggest it is the
multifloral rose.  If I remember correctly it was originally brought
here for "living fences".  The bushes can get huge - 12x12'

I hesitate to suggest it is I don't know if its in Canada.  Its
considered a noxious weed here now (at least in Kansas):
http://www.ink.org/public/kda/phealth/phprot/mrose.html

It has really nasty thorns.  In looking at the link for Osage Orange
the thorn looked painful, but not nearly as bad as either hawthorn or
multifloral rose.

Tom, no matter what you choose, how are you going to get the plants
established (and sizeable enough to prevent entry) before these "fun
seekers" run them over and kill them with their vehicles?

How about multifloral rose, hawthorn, Osage Orange *and* poison ivy +
poison sumac planted all together?  (I have no patience or tolerance
for vandals).

Chris Mauchline
SE PA, zone 6

--- In nafex@y..., Thomas Olenio <tolenio@s...> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I would like some "living fence" ideas, to keep out unwanted ATV's,
ATC's
> and dirt bikes.
>
> The gap is about 50' wide, under a bridge, running east west, so
there is
> plenty of sun except under the bridge.
>
> People with no respect for property cut the fence under the bridge
> regardless of there being cattle in the field, to get there fill of
fun on
> their machines in the pasture, destroying the grass the cattle feed
on,
> and presenting a legal injury problem.
>
> At first I liked poison ivy and those sorts of things, but that may
be too
> cruel for even these people.
>
> Any suggestions on a very cruel, thornded, fast growing
plant/shrub/cane
> that will (over time) fill the gap 50' on the south side, and grow
under
> the bridge?
>
> I still like the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac approach,
but
> part of me says not to do it.  But i am sure there is no law against
> planting such things on your own property. (evil grin)
>
> Under the bridge is also a haven for kids doing drugs, and I want
to kill
> that idea too.  There must be some good choices to make that a
nasty place
> to pass through, or be in.
>
> Even thought of keeping a fresh dead skunk under there.
>
> Hardiness zone 6a, southwest Ontario, spring flooding, damp/dry all
> summer, full south sun, shaded under bridge structure.
>
> Cuttings appreciated!  (of nasty thorned plants [smile])  Father
inlaw is
> getting tired of replacing the fence and chasing cattle at age 75.
> Thought I could help with a living fence to protect the strands of
barbed
> wire that cover the gap and run over the water, keeping the cattle
in and
> forming a river gate.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Olenio
> Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:57:40 -0700
   From: hector black <hblack@TWLakes.Net>
Subject: Re: Natural fencing Suggestions

Hi Tom,  There's a citrus, trifoliate orange, that is used around defense
establishments and forms an inpenetrable fence.  Thorns are huge and very
rigid and sharp.  Punctures tires etc.  It's hardy here in a cold zone 6.
Can take part shade, but not deep shade.    Hector Black
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
To: <nafex@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 12:00 PM
Subject: [nafex] Natural fencing Suggestions


> Hello All,
>
> I would like some "living fence" ideas, to keep out unwanted ATV's, ATC's
> and dirt bikes.
>
> The gap is about 50' wide, under a bridge, running east west, so there is
> plenty of sun except under the bridge.
>
> People with no respect for property cut the fence under the bridge
> regardless of there being cattle in the field, to get there fill of fun on
> their machines in the pasture, destroying the grass the cattle feed on,
> and presenting a legal injury problem.
>
> At first I liked poison ivy and those sorts of things, but that may be too
> cruel for even these people.
>
> Any suggestions on a very cruel, thornded, fast growing plant/shrub/cane
> that will (over time) fill the gap 50' on the south side, and grow under
> the bridge?
>
> I still like the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac approach, but
> part of me says not to do it.  But i am sure there is no law against
> planting such things on your own property. (evil grin)
>
> Under the bridge is also a haven for kids doing drugs, and I want to kill
> that idea too.  There must be some good choices to make that a nasty place
> to pass through, or be in.
>
> Even thought of keeping a fresh dead skunk under there.
>
> Hardiness zone 6a, southwest Ontario, spring flooding, damp/dry all
> summer, full south sun, shaded under bridge structure.
>
> Cuttings appreciated!  (of nasty thorned plants [smile])  Father inlaw is
> getting tired of replacing the fence and chasing cattle at age 75.
> Thought I could help with a living fence to protect the strands of barbed
> wire that cover the gap and run over the water, keeping the cattle in and
> forming a river gate.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Olenio
> Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:38:03 -0400
   From: "Mark Garrison" <pawpaw1@home.com>
Subject: natural fencing


----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Garrison
To: nafex@yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 5:37 PM
Subject: natural fencing


Osage orange your best bet in the sun, Mellingers has cheap seedlings.
Don't plant multiflora rose, it nearly took over our farm back in Indiana,
my father cussed, cut, dug, burned, sprayed and cussed before finally
getting rid of it.

Mark, RI zone 6


[This message contained attachments]



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Message: 14
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:42:58 -0700
   From: "kevin poland" <kvpoland@midmaine.com>
Subject: Re: Natural fencing Suggestions

tom,
the amazing thing is that they let people have those toys who have no land
to use them on. atv's are a real pest around here also, the riders have no
respect for living plants. i wouldn't care if they stayed on the roads, but
they won't. i've put logs across the road, old discarded concrete steps,
whatever they can't easily or hurriedly move. no one violating someone elses
space wants to hang out there in the open too long, thats why locks are only
for honest people who have a momentary lapse in judgement
kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
To: <nafex@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 12:00 PM
Subject: [nafex] Natural fencing Suggestions


> Hello All,
>
> I would like some "living fence" ideas, to keep out unwanted ATV's, ATC's
> and dirt bikes.
>
> The gap is about 50' wide, under a bridge, running east west, so there is
> plenty of sun except under the bridge.
>
> People with no respect for property cut the fence under the bridge
> regardless of there being cattle in the field, to get there fill of fun on
> their machines in the pasture, destroying the grass the cattle feed on,
> and presenting a legal injury problem.
>
> At first I liked poison ivy and those sorts of things, but that may be too
> cruel for even these people.
>
> Any suggestions on a very cruel, thornded, fast growing plant/shrub/cane
> that will (over time) fill the gap 50' on the south side, and grow under
> the bridge?
>
> I still like the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac approach, but
> part of me says not to do it.  But i am sure there is no law against
> planting such things on your own property. (evil grin)
>
> Under the bridge is also a haven for kids doing drugs, and I want to kill
> that idea too.  There must be some good choices to make that a nasty place
> to pass through, or be in.
>
> Even thought of keeping a fresh dead skunk under there.
>
> Hardiness zone 6a, southwest Ontario, spring flooding, damp/dry all
> summer, full south sun, shaded under bridge structure.
>
> Cuttings appreciated!  (of nasty thorned plants [smile])  Father inlaw is
> getting tired of replacing the fence and chasing cattle at age 75.
> Thought I could help with a living fence to protect the strands of barbed
> wire that cover the gap and run over the water, keeping the cattle in and
> forming a river gate.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Olenio
> Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 15
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:43:59 -0400
   From: "Gordon Nofs" <gc_nofs@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Natural fencing Suggestions

Multiflora rose fence. This grows fast, is cheep, grows wide, and is a good
entaglement, can not be driven through. Will most likly fill under the
bridge.

  I did this along my lot line, and found out that if anyone got hut on that
or any barb wire fence or many other things even though it is on my property
I could be sued. You may not have a prayer except keeping  the road kill in
supply under there during the summer months.
      Gordon
****************************************************

----Original Message Follows----
From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
Reply-To: nafex@yahoogroups.com
To: nafex@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [nafex] Natural fencing Suggestions
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:00:40 -0400 (EDT)

Hello All,

I would like some "living fence" ideas, to keep out unwanted ATV's, ATC's
and dirt bikes.

The gap is about 50' wide, under a bridge, running east west, so there is
plenty of sun except under the bridge.

People with no respect for property cut the fence under the bridge
regardless of there being cattle in the field, to get there fill of fun on
their machines in the pasture, destroying the grass the cattle feed on,
and presenting a legal injury problem.

At first I liked poison ivy and those sorts of things, but that may be too
cruel for even these people.

Any suggestions on a very cruel, thornded, fast growing plant/shrub/cane
that will (over time) fill the gap 50' on the south side, and grow under
the bridge?

I still like the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac approach, but
part of me says not to do it.  But i am sure there is no law against
planting such things on your own property. (evil grin)

Under the bridge is also a haven for kids doing drugs, and I want to kill
that idea too.  There must be some good choices to make that a nasty place
to pass through, or be in.

Even thought of keeping a fresh dead skunk under there.

Hardiness zone 6a, southwest Ontario, spring flooding, damp/dry all
summer, full south sun, shaded under bridge structure.

Cuttings appreciated!  (of nasty thorned plants [smile])  Father inlaw is
getting tired of replacing the fence and chasing cattle at age 75.
Thought I could help with a living fence to protect the strands of barbed
wire that cover the gap and run over the water, keeping the cattle in and
forming a river gate.

Thanks,
Tom

--
Thomas Olenio
Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a



_________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 16
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:42:46 -0400
   From: jhecksel@voyager.net
Subject: Re: Natural fence, Homo ATaVistica

Hi Thomas:

Tough problem.  My condolences.  Consider a second fence 10 to 15 meters
inside the outside fence.  Invite builders to dump waste from old wooden
construction (aka, nails).  Charge a fee.

Bozos on ATVs see any kind of obstruction or vegetation as a challenge
to be subdued.  But they hate to walk.  If you happen to see an
inoperative ATV on your property you might feed it some suger...horses
love sugar and the horsies are tired.  There was a case in Wisconsin
where a farmer filled a 4WD with sloppy dairy manure.  Judge ruled
farmer had right to fertilize his field and 4WD was not supposed to be
there.  You could try fertilizing them ;-)

Plants that have not been mentioned that are worth a try include
blackberries and seedling pears.  European farm practice was to saw
partially through the trunk at about 1.5m height and bend it over.  The
tops could then be woven basket style between adjacent trees if they
were planted close enough.  Nasty job.  Probably reserved for
landowner's least favorite serfs.

Good luck.

Thomas Olenio wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> I would like some "living fence" ideas, to keep out unwanted ATV's, ATC's
> and dirt bikes.
>
> The gap is about 50' wide, under a bridge, running east west, so there is
> plenty of sun except under the bridge.
>
> People with no respect for property cut the fence under the bridge
> regardless of there being cattle in the field, to get there fill of fun on
> their machines in the pasture, destroying the grass the cattle feed on,
> and presenting a legal injury problem.
>
> At first I liked poison ivy and those sorts of things, but that may be too
> cruel for even these people.
>
> Any suggestions on a very cruel, thornded, fast growing plant/shrub/cane
> that will (over time) fill the gap 50' on the south side, and grow under
> the bridge?
>
> I still like the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac approach, but
> part of me says not to do it.  But i am sure there is no law against
> planting such things on your own property. (evil grin)
>
> Under the bridge is also a haven for kids doing drugs, and I want to kill
> that idea too.  There must be some good choices to make that a nasty place
> to pass through, or be in.
>
> Even thought of keeping a fresh dead skunk under there.
>
> Hardiness zone 6a, southwest Ontario, spring flooding, damp/dry all
> summer, full south sun, shaded under bridge structure.
>
> Cuttings appreciated!  (of nasty thorned plants [smile])  Father inlaw is
> getting tired of replacing the fence and chasing cattle at age 75.
> Thought I could help with a living fence to protect the strands of barbed
> wire that cover the gap and run over the water, keeping the cattle in and
> forming a river gate.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Olenio
> Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--

                                            -Ellen Hecksel
                                             Eaton Rapids, Michigan


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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 17
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:44:09 -0400
   From: Joe Boles <jobo@istar.ca>
Subject: Re: Natural fencing Suggestions

Tom:

I've have made a living fence of hawthorn. Purchased mail order rooted
cuttings from a nursery in Manitoba (20 years ago). They can be pruned
to what ever width & height you like, interwoven, tied together. I let
them grow vertical the first year then tied the leaders/branches
horizontal and interweaved them. It worked out well.

Joe Boles
Mississauga, ON

Thomas Olenio wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I would like some "living fence" ideas, to keep out unwanted ATV's,
> ATC's
> and dirt bikes.
>
> The gap is about 50' wide, under a bridge, running east west, so there
> is
> plenty of sun except under the bridge.
>
> People with no respect for property cut the fence under the bridge
> regardless of there being cattle in the field, to get there fill of
> fun on
> their machines in the pasture, destroying the grass the cattle feed
> on,
> and presenting a legal injury problem.
>
> At first I liked poison ivy and those sorts of things, but that may be
> too
> cruel for even these people.
>
> Any suggestions on a very cruel, thornded, fast growing
> plant/shrub/cane
> that will (over time) fill the gap 50' on the south side, and grow
> under
> the bridge?
>
> I still like the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac approach,
> but
> part of me says not to do it.  But i am sure there is no law against
> planting such things on your own property. (evil grin)
>
> Under the bridge is also a haven for kids doing drugs, and I want to
> kill
> that idea too.  There must be some good choices to make that a nasty
> place
> to pass through, or be in.
>
> Even thought of keeping a fresh dead skunk under there.
>
> Hardiness zone 6a, southwest Ontario, spring flooding, damp/dry all
> summer, full south sun, shaded under bridge structure.
>
> Cuttings appreciated!  (of nasty thorned plants [smile])  Father inlaw
> is
> getting tired of replacing the fence and chasing cattle at age 75.
> Thought I could help with a living fence to protect the strands of
> barbed
> wire that cover the gap and run over the water, keeping the cattle in
> and
> forming a river gate.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Olenio
> Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a
>
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
  [www.newaydirect.com]

>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[This message contained attachments]



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Message: 18
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:49:10 -0400
   From: "Steve Shambeda" <sshambeda@paonline.com>
Subject: Re: Natural fencing Suggestions

Plant hybrid poplar about 2 or 3 feet apart. Should be able to get them for
under $5 each.
Mine have been in the ground for 6 years and are 6" in diameter at the base
and 25' tall.

----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
To: <nafex@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:00 PM
Subject: [nafex] Natural fencing Suggestions


> Hello All,
>
> I would like some "living fence" ideas, to keep out unwanted ATV's, ATC's
> and dirt bikes.
>
> The gap is about 50' wide, under a bridge, running east west, so there is
> plenty of sun except under the bridge.
>
> People with no respect for property cut the fence under the bridge
> regardless of there being cattle in the field, to get there fill of fun on
> their machines in the pasture, destroying the grass the cattle feed on,
> and presenting a legal injury problem.
>
> At first I liked poison ivy and those sorts of things, but that may be too
> cruel for even these people.
>
> Any suggestions on a very cruel, thornded, fast growing plant/shrub/cane
> that will (over time) fill the gap 50' on the south side, and grow under
> the bridge?
>
> I still like the poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac approach, but
> part of me says not to do it.  But i am sure there is no law against
> planting such things on your own property. (evil grin)
>
> Under the bridge is also a haven for kids doing drugs, and I want to kill
> that idea too.  There must be some good choices to make that a nasty place
> to pass through, or be in.
>
> Even thought of keeping a fresh dead skunk under there.
>
> Hardiness zone 6a, southwest Ontario, spring flooding, damp/dry all
> summer, full south sun, shaded under bridge structure.
>
> Cuttings appreciated!  (of nasty thorned plants [smile])  Father inlaw is
> getting tired of replacing the fence and chasing cattle at age 75.
> Thought I could help with a living fence to protect the strands of barbed
> wire that cover the gap and run over the water, keeping the cattle in and
> forming a river gate.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Olenio
> Ontario, Hardiness Zone 6a
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 19
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:14:06 -0600
   From: "carolyn wood" <natvwine@cut.net>
Subject: scions and rootstock

I have been a long time customer of Bear Creek and am now looking around in
vain for some M111 rootstock. Does anyone have a supplier in the western
U.S.?

I would also like to purchase or trade misc. scion/budwood to topwork my
many plum seedlings.
I have a number of cider apple scions and perry pear scions I could
trade....

Bob @ www.native-wines.com or natvwine@cut.net


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Message: 20
   Date: Thu, 19 Apr 01 22:41:43 -0700
   From: rick valley <bamboogrove@cmug.com>
Subject: RE: Natural fencing Suggestions

>I would like some "living fence" ideas, to keep out unwanted ATV's, ATC's
>and dirt bikes.
>
>The gap is about 50' wide, under a bridge, running east west, so there is
>plenty of sun except under the bridge.
>
>People with no respect for property cut the fence under the bridge
>regardless of there being cattle in the field, to get there fill of fun on
>their machines in the pasture, destroying the grass the cattle feed on,
>and presenting a legal injury problem.

Getting the plants established will be the hard part; I'd recommend leaving
a
gap on the path most favored by the atv-ers, and in that gap placing short
lengths of rebar, cut at 45° on the ends and driven into the ground angled
towards the oncoming tires. (use a bit of pipe as a "set" so you don't dull
the point driving them in) Fairly humane, if care is taken to locate the
spikes where the vehicles cannot be traveling too fast, and perhaps some
sticks for camoflage. If the gap is bounded by species that can easily be
layered into it once the traffic is discouraged and the hedge established-
voilà! a full hedge! The spikes have been used successfully in a number of
places to discourage illegal off-roading; replacing tires is burdensome to
the slothful who ride those things. Best not done by you or on your land of
course, and you never saw this idea.
I've never done it either.
-Rick



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