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Subject: Mounted search and rescue
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- From: tom agnew <agn2t@aol.com>
- To: msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR
- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:30:52 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: E.S. <ES212@QWEST.NET>
To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2010 11:00 am
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR
From: E.S. <ES212@QWEST.NET>
To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2010 11:00 am
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR
in short : it's one big mess and every group has it's big ego, "no standards for the standards"; however I believe that one can't have too much learning.. we'll always see the old timer that don't want to change anything and think their way is the only way... I have the NASAR certifications , and I'm always happy to have more knowledge and training by any organization. I also have many hours in the filed doing things the way the local sheriff wants it done. but I just know more... and hope to do my volunteer work better. that the point isn't it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "T'mi Finkle" <tfinkle@erols.com> To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR I agree with Irv and Una. While there are SAR and MSAR documents that have been written by national and international organizations, the requirements and KSA's are not enforceable unless they are adopted at the local level. In the USA, the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 (18 U.S.C. ยง 1385) substantially limits the powers of any national agency having jurisdiction (AHJ) on non-government property, thus making National SAR standards a mute point. Standards such as those published by ASTM International are not mandatory, but are available for voluntary adoption by the end-user (if they want to pay for them first). Such standards (by default) are written for application at higher level with the adoption based upon the generalization of skills currently in practice (within the field), with what has been approved by local AHJ's. Standards written by national and international private entities incorporate the minimum KSA's approved/adopted practices throughout a broad geographical region (such as the USA). Like many of the MSAR-Riders readers, I have helped developed MSAR standards for ASTM International, as well as for numerous local and state governments. One of the biggest obstacles I have observed during the standards process is that some MSAR practitioners want to incorporate KSA's used at their local level and have them included in a document designed for national adoption. Several local, state or regional (level) MSAR standards are currently in place throughout the USA and Canada and should any conflicting KSA's be identified between AHJ's, those items can not be included into a document written for national adoption. As Una and others have pointed out, look towards your local, state of tribal AHJ for standards they have already adopted. The goal of the ASTM International MSAR Responder standard was to designed to provide a (purchased) high level document that could easily be adopted at the local end-user and reinforce what is practiced/implemented at that response level. As a closing point; if MSAR standards must be purchased, then they are not truly applicable for State, National or International application; government documents are free source products. If an end-user has to pay to view a standard, it is simply a document for sale as someone's business product. T'mi www.trotsar.org PS: My involvement with MSAR and SAR standards is strictly an all volunteer activity. I do NOT receive monetary compensation for my work in the writing of SAR/MSAR standards, nor do I have my travel expenses paid for (to attend SAR events) by any standards organization (i.e.: ASTM, IEEE or NASAR). PS-2: I only had a few to write this response, so forgive my typo's -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Una Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:55 AM Subject: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR As Irv says, there are no national standards for SAR. Publication of a standard by ASTM does not make it a national standard. Adoption of a standard by NASAR does not make it a national standard. A standard becomes a formal national standard if it is adopted by a national agency having jurisdiction. A standard becomes an informal national standard if it is adopted by a majority of users across the nation. ............. Hope this helps. Una Smith New Mexico _______________________________________________ MSAR-Riders mailing list MSAR-Riders@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders _______________________________________________ MSAR-Riders mailing list MSAR-Riders@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders
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Re: [MSAR] training priorities--MSAR
, (continued)
- Re: [MSAR] training priorities--MSAR, Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/10/2010
- Re: [MSAR] training priorities--MSAR, Una Smith, 03/11/2010
- Re: [MSAR] training priorities--MSAR, Christi, 03/11/2010
- Re: [MSAR] training priorities--MSAR--tracking OJT, Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/12/2010
- Re: [MSAR] training priorities--MSAR--tracking OJT, Una Smith, 03/12/2010
- Re: [MSAR] training priorities--MSAR--tracking OJT, Marie Lester, 03/12/2010
- Re: [MSAR] Virus Attack, Una Smith, 03/10/2010
- Re: [MSAR] Virus Attack, Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/10/2010
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