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Subject: Mounted search and rescue
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- From: tm-fi <TFinkle@erols.com>
- To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors
- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:22:01 -0400
Una how dare you to speak for me!!
Just kidding Una really! And for the record, I respect both Una and Jorene. Many of us have professional MSAR backgrounds that are different. But now matter how harsh a post may seem, I firmly believe we all support the primary goal to support the betterment of MSAR.
Chris- I do not mind anyone using my lesson plans or standards. Yes, I wrote the TROT_SAR standards, but I had assistance from Suzanne (TROT-3), who edited and formatted the document. I am (retired) federal law enforcement facilitator, I have been trained by FEMA, FBI, DOJ, COG/DART and many other government agencies. I know how to write standards and performance objectives. Suzanne is a professional writer and editor. She has an equal professional background in making a document readable and properly formatted (At times, I hate her red pen at times, but then again I am the Queen of typos). The TROT_SAR Standards belong to us, not to any one else. Hmmmm, hey Suzanne lets make some money here (just kidding folks).
Our Team Standards (with attachments) are over 30 pages in length. Our training objectives and documentation for our Team has triple the pages. If you were to combine our public outreach documents and power point presentations, the combined Team records would CRASH most 486 computers.
Do we share our standards with other teams, yes, of course we do and never asked anything for payment. However, if any business or organization plans to take our work and turn it into a marketable document for themselves, then I have a big problem with them doing that. If NASAR wants to produce a MSAR-1, 2 or 3 then that is wonderful! However, the MSAR Committee needs to be credited for their efforts, as well as, the resources and those persons that were drawn from. I will re-read the NASAR K-9 standards, but I did not see that type of credit given when those books went to press.
At times, I do go out and teach for a profit. However, most of the time I teach free of charge to volunteer Search and Rescue Teams, that do not have an operating income. Today for instance, I drove three hours (each way), in order to teach an eight hour class. I did not charge one cent for my training or traveling expenses. The search team I taught for gave me a certificate of appreciation, which is worth more to me than the $500 dollars I could have made teaching some where else in the same eight hours.
It is possible that my feelings could be selfishly motivated, yes. Hopefully, I have made it clear that I support and regularly share my expertise with other search teams (at no charge). However, I do not feel that it is fair for someone to spend hundreds of hours creating task specific documents, to simply have that work taken away by someone else and have them call it their own.
If anyone else wants additional clarification please email me directly and not post to the site (thx).
Tomï
Una Smith wrote:
Tomï wrote:However, they need to go out and do it on their own, and stop taking the best from any team they can find, with the intentions of calling it their own.Chris wrote:Could you clarify what you mean by the above? I have been rather pleased that instead of separately creating MSAR standards that may or may not pertain to the "real" world the NASAR team members have asked those of us actually in the field to contribute via our expertise.I am not Tomï, but as I understand it... The issue is that Tomï is the author of the TROTSAR standard, which is the most detailed existing MSAR standard I have found anywhere. That standard has been adopted formally in Maryland and informally in Virginia. Now, Jorene has said the NASAR MSAR committee is working from several existing standards, all of which are freely shared, including Tomï's. But NASAR plans a rather proprietary standard. This has the appearance (if not fact) of more "take" than "give". Those of us in NASAR's market areas can expect some "give" in return, in the form of training (for those in need of basic training) and a credential; for those of us elsewhere, there is no such expectation. Una Smith Santa Fe County Sheriff's Posse, in New Mexico _______________________________________________ MSAR-riders mailing list MSAR-riders@lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors
, (continued)
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
Jorene, 10/21/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
pennbo, 10/21/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
Julie Hensley, 10/21/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
pennbo, 10/22/2003
- Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors, Una Smith, 10/22/2003
-
Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
pennbo, 10/22/2003
- Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors, Una Smith, 10/22/2003
-
Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
Julie Hensley, 10/21/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
pennbo, 10/21/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
wwfarm, 10/22/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
tm-fi, 10/22/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
pennbo, 10/23/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
Una Smith, 10/23/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
tm-fi, 10/23/2003
- Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors, wwfarm, 10/23/2003
- Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors, pennbo, 10/23/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
tm-fi, 10/23/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
Una Smith, 10/23/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
Una Smith, 10/23/2003
- Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors, tm-fi, 10/23/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
pennbo, 10/23/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
tm-fi, 10/22/2003
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Re: [MSAR] Identifying NASAR MSAR Instructors,
Jorene, 10/21/2003
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