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market-farming - Re: [Market-farming] Was "When to seed after liming" now Lime and minerals

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  • From: "Wyatt Jones" <wyatt_jones AT netzero.com>
  • To: <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Was "When to seed after liming" now Lime and minerals
  • Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:49:07 -0400

 
Actually Richard didn't call Jen "Clueless"  She called herself that and he responded to that using her own words, though he was a little blunt and not everybody can handle that.  He also seemed to draw conclusions from the use of that limited statement that might not have been entirely correct.  Maybe Jen did do her homework and got some good advice about applying the lime from someone else but she didn't say, she only addressed the issue of planting afterward.  Richard seemed to assume she didn't plan ahead from his comments, he also seemed a little alarmed though he did qualify his statement beforehand by stating he wasn't trying to be overly critical and I'm sure he was trying to be helpful. On the other hand Bills seemed to think that Richard was jumping down Jens throat, and even claimed he called her clueless when the clueless label was of Jen's origin and the use of that term probably the origin of Richards alarm.  At any rate being clueless doesn't necessarily mean you act in a clueless manner, if you can recognize your own ignorance of certain things you can avoid problems associated with that ignorance if you are smart about it.  For example, I'm no lawyer but I've had to hire a few of them these last two years.  I'm not totally clueless about the law but its a convoluted subject so the term probably does apply to me on some levels when dealing with legal issues.  Also I hired a soil consultant when I started having problems growing sweet corn, found out a lot of things I had no way of knowing without a lab test so I could be called clueless there but I got the help of others who weren't.  Words are funny things and it seems they don't mean much except what meanings we attach to them furthermore it seems different people get different impressions from the same exact phrases and a lot gets read into statements from our predispositions.  Sometimes being direct and to the point seems harsh or too blunt to some while being more diplomatic can be just plain confusing and contradictory to the point of not being useful to others.  Sometimes, when we understand things pretty well, we can leave out thing that we don't think are important to communicate that others, that don't have that knowledge, don't think about.  I think we all run into that all the time and a lot of the time we don't even realize it.  Sometimes I find myself explaining myself all the time and still getting nowhere so there is a point of no return but I think it varies from person to person and I can't read minds and I have to stop somewhere.  I think its important not to jump to conclusions about communication, sometimes our sensitivities can color our perception to our detriment.   I've found communication styles vary greatly and I saw a little "jumping" on both sides in this case.  Not being critical of anyone, we are all allowed to be human, in fact its pretty cool, most of the time anyway.  I think everybody means the best in all cases here and I do too but if you want to be critical of me feel free, it wouldn't be the first time by a long shot. 
 
Anyway, more to the point, I agree with what Bill said except I wouldn't exactly call liming a benign process and I can definitely understand Richards concerns.  One of the things one should take into consideration is what kind of lime to use.  The people I bought this farm from obviously repeatedly used dolomitic lime when they should have used high calcium lime and as a result there is several times the magnesium level there should be in my soil.  There are a few implication to this error, one of which is that it tightens up the soil considerably, another is it makes some soil nutrients less available and I think I heard something about it affecting the calcium and sulfur levels.  When I had a soil test done I also found out there was very little zinc in my soil, probably due to all the corn they grow around here and not adding it back, and very little sulfur, which might have contributed to the magnesium problem.  Anyway if the previous "farmers" had done a little research they would have known that the natural magnesium levels around here are already very high and if they had done a soil test they would have confirmed that it was even higher than normal for around here.  As it is I have to high calcium lime and sulfur to the soil to leach out some of the excess magnesium which is a slow process and in the meantime deal with hard cloddy soil which is harder to work and causes other problems. 
 
I know these are sidebar comments but I thought I'd mention it since the subjects came up.
 
By the way, I'm using Zinc sulfate for the zinc issue since it works quicker.  My soil consultant said Zinc oxide wasn't of much use since it breaks down so slow but it seems that, after I got the levels under control, it might be a good longer term solution.  Any comments?  I think its cheaper but I could be mistaken.  I've been treating the 5 acres I put into market garden according to the tests but haven't done the other acreage due to lack of funds though I plan to very soon
 
I also need to add phosphate, and the source my soil consultant recommended was a Tennessee Brown phosphate.  I've heard some very conflicting information about it, Fedco claims theirs is the consistency of compost, implying soft phosphate but other sources I checked say its a hard rock phosphate or neither a colloidal (soft phosphate) or a rock phosphate but a "washed phosphate ore".  Almost sounds like different people are calling different things "Tennessee Brown" 
 
 
Well I hope I didn't offend anyone, have a great day!!
 
Wyatt
 
Jamestown, Ohio
 


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  • Re: [Market-farming] Was "When to seed after liming" now Lime and minerals, Wyatt Jones, 05/03/2011

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