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  • From: Michael Libsch <mmlibsch AT hotmail.com>
  • To: <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [Market-farming] Thanks for all of the Grow Lights Help
  • Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 01:40:17 +0000

Grow Lights reply:

I would like to thank everyone who wrote back to my question about setting up grow lights for vegetable seedlings. Thanks for all of the good info!

Mike

> From: market-farming-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Market-farming Digest, Vol 88, Issue 22
> To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 13:21:02 -0400
>
> Send Market-farming mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Summer 'head' lettuce Qs (Road's End Farm)
> 2. Re: Was: Cowpeas; Now Gourmet Summer green. (Barking Cat Farm)
> 3. Re: clearing land cost? (Roots Farm & Karen Sutherland)
> 4. Re: clearing land cost? (Nan Hildreth)
> 5. Re: Was: Cowpeas; Now Gourmet Summer green.
> (Roots Farm & Karen Sutherland)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 10:28:20 -0400
> From: Road's End Farm <organic87 AT frontiernet.net>
> Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Summer 'head' lettuce Qs
> To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <69BAAE8C-A778-45E2-8CC6-9CCA46E3FDD3 AT frontiernet.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
>
> On May 10, 2010, at 8:40 AM, Richard Moyer wrote:
>
> > . Any recommendations for
> > baby 'head' production in summer? We rarely get into the 90s, but
> > lots of mid-high 80s.
> >
>
> Anuenue, Cherokee, maybe Pirat. Pirat's not quite as bolt resistant as
> the summer crisps but boy is it pretty; and if you're picking it young
> it will probably be fine.
>
> Also, shadecloth helps.
>
>
>
>
> -- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 5 mostly
> Fresh-market organic produce, small scale
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 09:46:47 -0500
> From: Barking Cat Farm <barkingcatfarm AT mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Was: Cowpeas; Now Gourmet Summer green.
> To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <9CFF91CC-75CC-4303-996B-1465091E9B8B AT mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> Hi Karen,
>
> thanks for sharing that. I had not thought to try to grow radicchio into the summer heat. Would you mind sharing what varieties have worked well for you?
>
> Thanks
>
> Kim
> Barking Cat Farm
> Texas zone 7/8 where the Spring planting is finally done, here's hoping for a decent year
>
>
> On May 8, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Roots Farm & Karen Sutherland wrote:
>
> > Radicchio does well in our summer heat -- which may get up to 92-93, not usually beyond. The head types are so attractive -- look like large flowers. The leaf types have same culinary qualities but are less attractive and more difficult to handle/keep looking good at market. All radicchio is great in salads, can also be braised. We are careful to explain to customers that they have a slight, but pleasing bitter taste as some folks never enjoy bitter direction, others (like me) love.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 11:09:03 -0400
> From: Roots Farm & Karen Sutherland <rootsfarm AT cwdom.dm>
> Subject: Re: [Market-farming] clearing land cost?
> To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <4B1E8BD7-B2A5-4338-A73C-0F1CC8C0500A AT cwdom.dm>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Another possible consideration for future ramifications of decision from FAO list (FAO-Carib-Agri <FAO-Carib-Agri AT fao.org>):
>
> > "Should the water authority in future PAY the forestry authority for water conserved by forests". Although that might seem far-fetched, the value of intact forests would then become hugely valuable , since as you say, they cannot be replaced.
>
> Best wishes to all,
>
> Karen
>
> Roots Farm
> Organic Produce
> Fruits, Roots, Vegetables & Herbs
> Cockrane, DOMINICA
> 767-449-3038
> rootsfarm AT cwdom.dm
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 09:24:04 -0500
> From: Nan Hildreth <NanHildreth AT riseup.net>
> Subject: Re: [Market-farming] clearing land cost?
> To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>,
> market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <20100510152208.2468DD48E AT swift.riseup.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
>
> How's this summary?
> Clearing costs maybe $1,500 an acre. Or maybe
> that + plenty of sweat and skullsweat.
> Clearing is at best a long-term investment.
> Before you call the logger or dozer man, think, ask advice, plan.
> It might be better to get your own equipment.
> It might be better to keep some of your wood for lumber, fuel.
> It might be better to put your livestock to work clearing.
> The mess after clearcutting has cost as much to
> de-stump and de-root as the tree revenue when
> timber prices were high 40 years ago.
> Learn something about your trees before you kill them.
> If your hardwoods are good enough for veneer,
> it's worth lots more than lumber.
> The right solution depends on land, farmer.
>
> Nan in Texas
>
> At 01:47 AM 5/10/2010, KAKerby AT aol.com wrote:
> >I've not had the chance to get back to this
> >question until now, but that gave me the
> >opportunity to read through some of the other
> >responses. Now I can toss in stuff that hasn't
> >already been mentioned, instead of just
> >repeating stuff that other folks have already pointed out.
> >
> >First, I'd point out that your question whether
> >to 'find a forest crop' or 'call the dozer guy'
> >is artificially restricting yourself to only two
> >of many options. For one thing, there's nothing
> >to say you can't do both. Keep part of the
> >forest intact, and explore either traditional
> >lumber crops, and/or alternative forest crops,
> >if either of those appeal to you. Then clear
> >the other portion for whatever else you want to
> >do. It certainly doesn't have to be either/or.
> >
> >Secondly, if you do decide to clear some or all
> >of that land, there are a lot of different ways
> >to do that. First, the land can be
> >professionally clearcut logged and that lumber
> >carted off, and someone cuts you a check. Or,
> >the land can be selectively logged and just
> >certain trees carted off, and someone cuts you a
> >check. Maybe a smaller check, but then again
> >maybe not, depending on the forestry species you
> >have. Or, the trees can be kept around awhile
> >and you could clear just the underbrush, which
> >may or may not have economic value
> >itself. Clearing the underbrush but leaving the
> >upper canopy intact could give you exactly the
> >environment you want for shade crops, plus those
> >trees are still there to be harvested later if
> >you wish. Or, go ahead and call in the dozer
> >guy who could push over the trees rather than
> >harvest them, so you'd have a lot of new habitat
> >on your property (but precious little prepared
> >land ready for tilling). That underbrush could
> >be cleared by you (a drag of a job but some
> >folks enjoy it), mechanically by tractor, brush
> >cutter or other implement, or "biologically" via
> >livestock of a variety of species.
> >
> >Third, a lot of this decision depends on stuff
> >you bring to the table - your goals, your
> >priorities, your resources (time, money,
> >energy). It also depends on what that land
> >already has on it. If it's flat rich ground
> >with easy access, full of high-dollar trees, and
> >you want to become a cattle baron, you could
> >make a nice profit from the lumber sale and have
> >it converted over to pasture within a year. If
> >it's sloped ground with trash trees and no easy
> >access, and you want to grow corn, you might not
> >be able to sell enough to recover the cost of
> >logging it, plus the lousy crop you'd get later
> >would make it an exercise in futility. Your
> >particular scenario is probably somewhere in
> >between. Also the method you choose should
> >coincide with your goals post-clearing - if you
> >want lots of wildlife habitat, the dozer would
> >tear up some kinds of habitat but create
> >others. However, a dozer would leave you a
> >heckuva mess to churn through before you could
> >plant anything. A selective or clearcutting
> >logging team could get in there and do a nice
> >clean job and you'd never have to deal with the
> >wood again. But if you want the wood, you could
> >have it milled or split right there. Lots and lots of options.
> >
> >Permits, regulations and incentives are another
> >issue. A lot of areas now either have
> >incentives to reward land clearing, or
> >regulations saying it can't be done except by
> >jumping through all these here hoops. Whichever
> >is the case, you may very well need permits to
> >do much beyond 5000 board feet of lumber per
> >year. That's the rule here, and you can reach
> >that point on less than an acre of good forested
> >land. So you'll want to check into that before you make any firm decisions.
> >
> >Our farm consists of almost seven acres of
> >climax mixed species forest, with a very dense
> >understory. We initially looked into logging it
> >as a way to bring in some money and prep the
> >site for other uses. But the combination of
> >permit requirements, land use concerns and
> >access concerns on our particular site meant
> >that we would have lost money on a logging
> >job. At least we found that out before the
> >fact. We did not have a tractor of our own, and
> >we did not like the idea of other folks using
> >tractors or bulldozers on our sloping ground, if
> >they could have even gotten that kind of
> >equipment in here at all. So that option was
> >out. But livestock were already a part of our
> >plans, so we put them to work in the woods doing
> >clearing for us. So far they've done a nice job
> >and we're slowly but surely getting the land
> >shifted over from forest to ag production,
> >slowly enough that we're below the radar
> >permit-wise. And since all that browse reduces
> >their feed bill, we end up saving money with
> >that approach instead of spending
> >money. Meanwhile, we are investigating a
> >variety of shade crops, a few of which we've
> >moved forward on, but they aren't going to be
> >our one-and-only thing. We ultimately plan to
> >have a diversified operation, featuring both
> >wooded and open areas, and profitable uses from both.
> >
> >I hope some part of that helps you figure out
> >what you're going to do, and how best to go
> >about it. But whatever you decide, don't think
> >for a minute there's only one way to do
> >it. There's lots of ways to skin that
> >cat. Best to figure out what your goals are,
> >then how to meet them. Not rely on artificially imposed limits.
> >Kathryn Kerby
> >frogchorusfarm.com
> >Snohomish, WA
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 5/9/2010 6:22:56 A.M. Pacific
> >Daylight Time, frank.dragonflyfarms AT gmail.com writes:
> >I for one vote to keep the discussion here and
> >suspect some others might agree. Prime tillable
> >land is hard to come and I have considered
> >purchasing forest land to clear, but don???t
> >know the first thing about the costs to do so either.
> >
> >So I lease, but someday want to own my own land.
> >
> >From: market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >[mailto:market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of KAKerby AT aol.com
> >Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:02 PM
> >To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >Subject: Re: [Market-farming] clearing land cost?
> >
> >This is something of a loaded question, in the
> >sense that there are quite a few variables at
> >play. Hard to give a single yes/no answer
> >without a whole lot more detail. Our farm
> >started 10 years ago on overgrown forested land
> >and most of it is still in that condition, so
> >this is a very big, ongoing issue for us. I'd
> >be happy to talk with you at length (off list
> >cuz it's probably not pertinent to enough
> >folks), to go over what we've done here, what's
> >worked, what hasn't, etc. But I will say right
> >now that we have yet to hire "the dozer
> >man". And we have no plans at the moment to do
> >so. Let me know if I can provide any more
> >insight/assistance as you make your plans........
> >
> >Kathryn Kerby
> >frogchorusfarm.com
> >Snohomish, WA
> >
> >In a message dated 5/8/2010 12:01:57 P.M.
> >Pacific Daylight Time, NanHildreth AT riseup.net writes:
> >
> >Is clearing forest land too expensive? Should I find a forest crop
> >instead? If I hire a dozer man, will he ruin the soil?
> >Nan Hildreth 713-842-6643
> >Action is the antidote to despair....
> >Joan Baez
> >_______________________________________________
> >Market-farming mailing list
> >Market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/market-farming
> >Market Farming List Archives may be found here:
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> >Unsubscribe from the list here (you will need to login in with your email
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> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Market-farming mailing list
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> >_______________________________________________
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> >
> >Market Farming List Archives may be found here:
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>
> Nan Hildreth 713-842-6643
>
> Action is the antidote to despair....
> Joan Baez
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 12:36:56 -0400
> From: Roots Farm & Karen Sutherland <rootsfarm AT cwdom.dm>
> Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Was: Cowpeas; Now Gourmet Summer green.
> To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <702309A6-8816-4600-A3A4-102B6DA27CD9 AT cwdom.dm>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Both the Chioggia and Indigo types of the head radicchios worked well. (Fedco and Johnnys are among those who carry.) We also found surprising tolerance to both rain and drought conditions. (Note: we have young volcanic really "alive" soil conditions and intense sun -- almost feels like a different quality of light. Most plants really like growing here -- a few exceptions: e.g., spinach, brussels -- but may be that the mineral rich soil and abundant photoenergy go a long way towards overcoming other plant growing preferences.) Slugs and cutworms were minor perturbances.
>
> Hope the radicchio does equally as well for you or even better.
>
> All best wishes,
>
> Karen
>
> Roots Farm
> Organic Produce
> Fruits, Roots, Vegetables & Herbs
> Cockrane, DOMINICA
> 767-449-3038
> rootsfarm AT cwdom.dm
>
>
> On May 10, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Barking Cat Farm wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi Karen,
> >
> > thanks for sharing that. I had not thought to try to grow radicchio into the summer heat. Would you mind sharing what varieties have worked well for you?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Kim
> > Barking Cat Farm
> > Texas zone 7/8 where the Spring planting is finally done, here's hoping for a decent year
> >
> >
> > On May 8, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Roots Farm & Karen Sutherland wrote:
> >
> >> Radicchio does well in our summer heat -- which may get up to 92-93, not usually beyond. The head types are so attractive -- look like large flowers. The leaf types have same culinary qualities but are less attractive and more difficult to handle/keep looking good at market. All radicchio is great in salads, can also be braised. We are careful to explain to customers that they have a slight, but pleasing bitter taste as some folks never enjoy bitter direction, others (like me) love.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/market-farming
> >
> > Market Farming List Archives may be found here:
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> > Unsubscribe from the list here (you will need to login in with your email
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>
>
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> End of Market-farming Digest, Vol 88, Issue 22
> **********************************************


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  • [Market-farming] Thanks for all of the Grow Lights Help, Michael Libsch, 05/10/2010

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