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Subject: Market Farming
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- From: Bill Shoemaker <wshoemak AT illinois.edu>
- To: "Market Farming" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica
- Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 09:19:10 -0600 (CST)
As a land-grant University scientist, I find the whole idea of biodynamic
strange. But, I would not be ethically consistent if I dismissed it
out-of-hand. I think you are pointing out a critical problem for engaging in
a discussion of biodynamic between "believers" and "unbelievers"; the
presentation of evidence. I think its coming along as one poster already
presented. But it takes a sufficient amount of objectively developed evidence
for sufficient case to be made for a "technique". The more complex the
"technique" ( I apologize if the term technique seems too crude for
biodynamic), the more difficult it is to develop a strong enough base of
objective evidence (data, generally). I think it will eventually come in the
case of biodynamic. It just takes time. And when it is so unique and
different from the norm, and biodynamic is, then you have a starting point
with many detractors. But I will point out that the market doesn't really
care. If biodynamic works, the market will!
s!
upport it. If it's true, in the end, the biodynamic community will be
vindicated. Then it will certainly be time to break out that biodynamic wine,
hopefully bubbly.
Please don't think I'm coming to the rescue of the biodynamic movement. I'm
not. I'm trying to point out that this whole difference of opinion has a
problem; a sufficient base of objective information to support either side of
the difference of opinion. I would contend that science will eventually sort
it out if beliefs wouldn't get in the way. I think there needs to be much
more patience on both sides and a dedication to objectively developing a
database before either side has a substantial argument to present. It will
come someday.
Bill
>
> I think we biodynamic growers are so used to hearing
> snide comments about the woowoo aspects of what we
> do, that we hear derision and sarcasm even if it
> isn't there.
> When I'm faced with people who say what we do cannot
> have any basis in reality, I also shorthand our
> results as Allan did in his previous post: look at
> the wine industry. Grapes for wine are one of the
> few crops where quality is still given great
> attention. There aren't many people out there
> thoughtfully and carefully comparing the nuances of
> broccolis grown in different ways...but wine is
> another story. Where people pay attention to
> quality, biodynamically grown food is acknowledged
> to be superior. Check out the awards won by French
> Chapoutier wines in the last decade and by Frey in
> California.
> Of course, this is anecdotal info. One place where
> the biodynamic "movement" could really be
> strengthened is in its documentation of results.
> People are much more likely to give hard data
> serious consideration and we definitely fall short
> in this.
> Best,
> Deb
> Sleepy Hollow NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sean Albiston <lab AT physics.umn.edu>
> To: Market Farming
> <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thu, Jan 28, 2010 11:42 am
> Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica
>
> I have no claims against your methods. I have gotten a sunburn that I
> have attributed to using a sprayer before. I was just stating the obvious
> that water droplets affect light too.
>
> sean
>
> > - I'm a full time farmer and have been for a long time. I don't get
> > burned from any of other foliars I put out, or, for that matter, from
> > the misting sprayers. Horn Silica is different. You should see how
> > 'alert' the plants become shortly after application. Just water won't
> > do that.
> >
> > It's important to always realize that we humans have a very vague
> > understanding of how the natural world works. If that isn't apparent
> > from working with your own soil and plants, knowing that we only
> > recently discovered the function of boron in plant growth, the
> > existence of glomalin (sp?) in the creation of soil structure or the
> > importance of vit D in human health.
> >
> > Like I said, biodynamics is well received in the rest of the world,
> > particularly in Australia where the farmers are much more pragmatic.
> >
> > Biodynamic products agriculture is associated with products of a
> > higher quality than we commonly see. This perception is validated by
> > third parties.
> >
> > When I find out that my neighbor is winning blue ribbons, I want to
> > find out what he's doing that I don't currently do, instead of
> > telling him that it's all in his head.
> >
> > there's no point in discussing this any further. You either get it or
> > you don't get it and that's fine with me, either way. The first time
> > I got it was by planting peas by the biodynamic calendar. I simply
> > couldn't not account for the different germ rate and earlier
> > emergence dates I got when I planted according to the calendar. I
> > don't expect anyone to realize what they don't know about the world
> > by simply thinking their way through it.
> >
> > -Allan Balliett
> > Shepherdstown, WV
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Market-farming mailing list
> > Market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/market-farming
> >
> >
>
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>________________
>_______________________________________________
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>
William H Shoemaker, UI-Crop Sciences
Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops
St Charles Horticulture Research Center
535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174
630-584-7254; FAX-584-4610
-
Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica
, (continued)
- Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica, John and Katy Ehrlich, 01/28/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica, Kate Halstead, 01/28/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] The Magic of Horn silica, Maggie Palmer, 01/28/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] The Magic of Horn silica, Bill Bradshaw, 01/28/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] The Magic of Horn silica, BarbaraJ, 01/28/2010
- [Market-farming] Biodynamic Planting Calendars, Allan.Balliett, 01/28/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] The Magic of Horn silica, BarbaraJ, 01/28/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica, Allan.Balliett, 01/28/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica, Sean Albiston, 01/28/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica, Deb Taft, 01/28/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica, Bill Shoemaker, 01/31/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica, Road's End Farm, 01/31/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica, Bill Shoemaker, 01/31/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica, Tom, 01/31/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica, Allan.Balliett, 01/28/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] Horn silica, Marie Kamphefner, 01/29/2010
-
Re: [Market-farming] determinate Tomato >> trellising,
Deb Taft, 01/27/2010
- Re: [Market-farming] determinate Tomato >> trellising, Garth & Kim Travis, 01/27/2010
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