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  • From: "Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious" <bbrocious AT hotmail.com>
  • To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [Market-farming] Thanks for the great vinegar info Steve
  • Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:18:23 -0400

Steve, that was most helpful.  I've been looking all over Louisville for Ascetic acid and people that have been the cleaning industry for 28 years look at me like I have 3 heads.  They've never heard of it.  We are going to try some 5% that we bought at Kroger, on some weeds and see what happens.
Bob

Bob, Kathleen, and Kory Brocious
Tenacity Farm
Campbellsburg, Kentucky
>From: Steve Diver
>Reply-To: Market Farming
>To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: [Market-farming] Re: Vinegar source anybody?
>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:05:10 -0500
>
>Vinegar for weed control is a hot topic, so I will post
>the following resources.
>
>I see that some of the natural herbicide products on
>the market now have the USDA Organic label. That is
>good to know. It opens options for non-chemical weed
>control in organic no-till, perennial crops, pathways, etc.
>You probably just have to try it to gain an appreciation for
>efficacy -- how much weed control you can really get, and
>how much it's going to cost.
>
>Here is the USDA-ARS web page that summarizes
>the USDA research effort. This is what generated so
>much interest in this topic.
>
>The "Vinegar as an Herbicide" Information Page
>of The Sustainable Agricultural Systems Laboratory
>http://www.barc.usda.gov/anri/sasl/vinegar.html
>
>"Greenhouse and field research have been conducted at
>Beltsville, Maryland, to determine the efficacy of vinegar for
>controlling weeds. The results indicate that vinegar can kill several
>important weed species at several growth stages. Vinegar at 10,
>15 or 20 % acetic acid concentration provided 80-100 percent
>kill of selected annual weeds, including giant foxtail up to 3 inches
>in height, common lambsquarters up to 5 inches, smooth pigweed
>up to 6 inches, and velvetleaf up to 9 inches."
>
>However, this page does not include additional details, such
>as restrictions for legal use and wholesale sources of acetic
>acid.
>
>Iowa State Univ and Univ of Wisconsin put out the
>following articles that address these concerns. See:
>
>Acetic Acid (Vinegar) for Weed Control Revisited
>Micheal D. K. Owen | Iowa State University
>http://www.weeds.iastate.edu/weednews/vinegar.htm
>
>Acetic Acid (Vinegar) for Weed Control
>Jerry Doll | Univ of Wisconsin
>http://ipcm.wisc.edu/uw_weeds/extension/articles/aceticacid.htm
>
>"It is important to recognize that the use of acetic acid (vinegar),
>unless the material is specifically labeled as a herbicide, is illegal
>and a violation of FIFRA. A number of companies have registrations
>for acetic acid to be used as a herbicide. This information can be
>accessed at http://www.gardenville.com, http://www.greensense.net,
>http://www.bradfieldind.com, and http://www.biconet.com"
>
>The people that regulate pesticides -- and how they
>focus on home-made products and recipes-- are picky.
>You may want to check with your State Dept of Agric as
>well as your organic certification agency for approved
>ideas on home-made acetic acid mixtures for weed control.
>
>Otherwise, you can look into approved products (natural
>herbicides) containing acetic acic, lemon oil, clove oil, etc
>from one of the suppliers listed above. For example, I see
>that Biocontrol Network carries Burnout (vinegar + lemon juice)
>and Matran (clove oil, acetic acid) natural herbicides,
>and each carries the USDA Organic label.
>
>For insight into wholesale types of acetic acid, and how one
>product supplier has found "wiggle room" for legal sales
>of acetic acid, see:
>
>Fact Sheet for Vinegar/Acetic Acid Recommendations
>http://wsprs.wsu.edu/VinegarFactSheet.pdf
>
>Bradfield Natural Fertilizers, in Springfield, Missouri, is
>the company selling 20% concentrated acetic acid
>http://www.bradfieldind.com
>
>BD-Now, the email list on Biodynamic farming, had a good
>thread on vinegar for weed control, in June 2002. You
>have to poke through the archives, but the posts contained
>insights into dilution, caution as to its safe use in mixing, and
>mixing with citric acid for synergistic weed killing effect.
>http://csf.colorado.edu/archive/2002/bdnow/mail19.html
>
>Regards,
>Steve Diver
>
>==================================================
>In response to:
>
>Folks,
>I am trying hard to find a source for potent vinegar. Somthing greater
>than
>the 5% strength you find on the grocery store shelves. Anybody have a
>source they would share? We want to use it for weed control. The
>stronger
>the better.
>Bob, Kathleen, and Kory Brocious
>==================================================
>==================================================
>
>
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>
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Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >From wiediger AT msn.com Fri Apr 18 13:55:14 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org Received: from hotmail.com (bay3-dav155.bay3.hotmail.com [65.54.169.185]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1793220073 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:55:11 -0700 Received: from 68.134.0.42 by bay3-dav155.bay3.hotmail.com with DAV; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:55:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [68.134.0.42] X-Originating-Email: [wiediger AT msn.com] From: To: "Market Farming" References: <000001c30298$e4e1e580$e898d73f@pavilion> <014401c302f1$e6ca0900$d94c030a@larryscomputer> Subject: Re: [Market-farming] roll up sides Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:55:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN Mail 8.00.0022.3100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V8.00.0022.3100 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Apr 2003 17:55:11.0350 (UTC) FILETIME=[A8215160:01C305D3] X-BeenThere: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Market Farming List-Id: Market Farming List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:55:14 -0000 We grow lettuce and mesclun all summer in hoophouses, (South Central KY - zone 6b) leaving the plastic on, roll-up sides, ends still on & covered with poly, and a layer of shade cloth over the poly covering the poly to the top of the roll-up sides. Mesclun grown in the hoophouses during the spring and fall takes 21 days from seeding until first harvest, during the summer this drops to 15-18 days, depending upon when in the summer you sow it. We are only able to get 1 cutting off the summer grown mesclun. Takes a lot more water to get a good seed stand and crop. We need to hand water as well as use drip irrigation. Drip alone doesn't seem to be enough. We also drop the "greens" from our mesclun mix, due to excessive insect pressure. Carefully watch for caterpillars, you might have to spray with Bt (Dipel). 1 early spray usually gives excellent control. Also note that the heavier the percentage of shade, the more it will affect the red coloring in your red lettuces. We used 50% shade and it eliminated almost all of the red in our mix. An excellent lettuce for summer growing even outside is Jericho. This is a green Romaine, developed in Israel to grow in their irrigated desert. All around excellent lettuce, firm, dark green, good weight, size and most off all, flavor. really handles the summer heat well. Paul and Alison Wiediger Au Naturel Farm http://aunaturelfarm.homestead.com > This will be my first year rolling up sides and using shade on a hoophouse. > I essentially would have a shade house and could grow salad mix and > other 'shade loving vegetables' under it. > > Now I am hearing that houses retain a lot of heat after they are > rolled up and that lettuce probably won't grow well under a rolled up > hoophouse, even with plastic installed. > > What has your experience been? > > -Allan Balliett > the Plains, VA >From glenecofarm AT planetcomm.net Fri Apr 18 19:42:19 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org Received: from mlik.planetcomm.net (mlik.planetcomm.net [63.115.91.2]) by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB1C520005 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.planetcomm.net (mail.planetcomm.net [63.115.91.3]) by mlik.planetcomm.net (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h3INhMkb030241 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:43:22 -0400 Received: from pavilion [64.4.122.194] by mail.planetcomm.net (SMTPD32-7.13) id AB3EF20092; Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:41:34 -0500 Message-ID: <002101c3061c$c918c300$c27a0440@pavilion> From: "Marlin Burkholder" To: "Market Farming" References: <MABBIKOOKAHODAEJPBFJAEBMFAAA.rdhopkins AT americanpasturage.com><000d01c3024d$013fc680$9e7a0440@pavilion> <3E9A9084.6BB7FB7B AT infinet.com> Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Share Boxes (?) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:38:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Market Farming List-Id: Market Farming List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 23:42:19 -0000 > If your produce is certified organic packing in such boxes may well null > and void you certification. Unless the food that came in the tomato > boxes was certified organic (which is not that case at Burger King) the > boxes will have been exposed to ag chemicals and it is assumed these > chemicals still persist. This and a few other reasons is precisely why we have never desired to be certified organic! We do follow organic or sustainable practices for most of the things we do here, but when it comes to questions of nitpicking or operating under assumptions, common sense rules. Marlin Burkholder Virginia

  • [Market-farming] Thanks for the great vinegar info Steve, Bob, Kathleen, & Kory Brocious, 04/18/2003

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