Send Livingontheland mailing list submissions
to
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.orgTo
subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingonthelandor,
via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
livingontheland-request@lists.ibiblio.orgYou
can reach the person managing the list at
livingontheland-owner@lists.ibiblio.orgWhen
replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re:
Contents of Livingontheland digest..."
Today's
Topics:
1. Re: about climate (Harvey Ussery)
2. Re:
about climate (John D'hondt)
3. Re: about climate (Rob
Wilson)
4. Re: about climate (John D'hondt)
5. Re: CLIMATE
STUDY: EVIDENCE LEANS AGAINST HUMAN-CAUSED GLOBAL
WARMING (John D'hondt)
6. Re: Climate study (Dan
Conine)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message:
1
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 08:08:55 -0400
From: Harvey Ussery <
harvey@themodernhomestead.us>
Subject:
Re: [Livingontheland] about climate
To:
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.orgMessage-ID:
<
52481857.6030900@themodernhomestead.us>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On 09/28/2013 10:52 PM, tradingpost
wrote:
> As I understand it, living forests sequester more CO2 while
producing
> O2 than burning them down to make biochar.
Let's not
forget the enormous potential for sequestering carbon in soil
with big
changes in the way we do agriculture. I highly recommend COWS
SAVE THE
PLANET by Judith Schwartz (Chelsea Green 2013). She reports the
work of a
number of researchers who believe that we could change the
CO2/climate
equations much faster than most of us imagine by switching
to agricultural
practices that sequester soil carbon--grasslands plus
grazing livestock
and the like. Check it out.
~Harvey
--
Harvey in northern
Virginia
www.themodernhomestead.us
My book /The Small-Scale Poultry
Flock/ (Chelsea Green, 2011) is
available at
www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/the_smallscale_poultry_flock
--------------
next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/livingontheland/attachments/20130929/1e512a65/attachment-0001.html------------------------------
Message:
2
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 21:56:49 +0100
From: "John D'hondt" <
dhondt@eircom.net>
Subject: Re:
[Livingontheland] about climate
To: "Rob Wilson" <
robwilson5095@yahoo.com>,
"Healthy soil and
sustainable growing" <
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<
E1FD750BD4EA4CF98BCE00E8A1447818@Targadc5fefe82d>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
To me "bio" char is just a new-speak
word to sell charcoal better Rob. Should you not better try compost teas,
microbial teas and other biological brews on their own without the black stuff
before you ascribe a growth miracle to charcoal?
I have tried charcoal not
only on seedlings but in plant beds as well since I have it available most of
the time anyway. I had beds with and without and with and without the brews
that you mention and I saw results from the teas and nothing from the
charcoal. Zilch, nada, nothing. I do see results from hugelcultur, putting
real timber underground and letting the soil microbes and fungi do the job of
breaking timber down.
I know that the net is full of articles waxing
euphoric about "bio-char". It is extremely fashionable. Even Dr. Mercola seems
to be sold on it these days. I have yet to see anybody doing real tests with
controls so until people do it is no more than an emperor without clothes. And
I have every reason to believe it is extremely damaging to the environment.
See how much energy it costs to make charcoal yourself and how much carbon
dioxide is spewed into the air while doing it. A quick calculation tells me
that you likely bring 20 times more CO2 into the air than you sequester with
the end product. Real pyrolysation is less damaging but who can afford such an
installation?
I do think that activated charcoal can be a fantastic
health material. It used to be readily available for all kinds of digestive
problems. And it is great in case of poisoning.
And it can bind to
pesticides and other toxins in the soil and make those inactive. But you don't
need tons of it for that purpose.
John
From: Rob Wilson
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
Sent: Sunday,
September 29, 2013 3:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] about
climate
What utter nonsense. Do not confuse charcoal with
biochar.
John I suggest you read the attached comments.
Here in Australia the much revered CSIRO and other Government primary
industry bodies have been conducting large scale broad acre trials with
biochar. All report positive outcomes from the application of biochar. The
following link is just one or these reports
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/447857/DPI-BioChar-in-Horticulture.pdf
Many years ago, on the advise of my green fingered uncle, I planted peas over
trenches that I had buried charaoal. And yes it was the worst crop of peas
that I had ever grown. The charcoal had sucked all nutrient out of the
ground.
Now days I inoculate my charcoal with compost teas,
effective microbial teas and other biological brews. The charcoal can then be
referred to as biochar. This gives excellent results. Increased yields, more
robust plants and less need of water and fertilisers.
The degraded
block of land I am clearing and trying to rejuvenate is benefiting from the
carbon I am returning to the ground. This is much preferable to burning
windrows and sending it into the atmosphere
Rob
Wilson.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John D'hondt <
dhondt@eircom.net>
To:
Healthy soil and sustainable growing <
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, 28 September 2013 8:31 AM
Subject: Re:
[Livingontheland] about climate
I am so glad that at last an
official scientific institute has come out
against ""Biochar"". I
have been writing about this for ten years at least
since I first
did tests with it. I found seedlings and plants to grow less
vigorous with charcoal than without. And this is nothing but logical.
Charcoal is the oldest wood preservative known to man because all
soil
organisms avoid it like the plague.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "tradingpost"
<
tradingpost@lobo.net>
To: <
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 5:55 PM
Subject:
[Livingontheland] about climate
> Surviving Global
Warming, Localized Food & Energy Systems #climate
>
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Surviving_Global_Warming.php
>
> Beware the Biochar Initiative
> Turning
bioenergy crops into buried charcoal to sequester carbon does
>
not work, and could plunge the earth into an oxygen crisis towards
mass
> extinction
>
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/bewareTheBiocharInitiative.php
> _______________________________________________
>
Livingontheland mailing list
>
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland
>
_______________________________________________
Livingontheland mailing list
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Livingontheland
mailing list
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland--------------
next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/livingontheland/attachments/20130929/434e8d2c/attachment-0001.html------------------------------
Message:
3
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 14:13:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rob Wilson <
robwilson5095@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: [Livingontheland] about climate
To: Healthy soil and sustainable
growing
<
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<
1380489223.7611.YahooMailNeo@web121103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Tradingpost, no one is suggesting
burning down forests to make biochar. There is enough woody weeds and crop
residue for these
purposes.
Rob
________________________________
From:
tradingpost <
tradingpost@lobo.net>
To:
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2013 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland]
about climate
As I understand it, living forests sequester
more CO2 while
producing O2 than burning them down to
make biochar.
paul
tradingpost@lobo.netOn
9/28/2013 8:21 PM, Rob Wilson wrote:
What utter nonsense. Do not
confuse charcoal with biochar.
>John I suggest you read the attached
comments.
>Here in Australia the much revered CSIRO ?and other
Government primary industry bodies have been conducting large scale broad acre
trials with biochar. All report positive outcomes from the application of
biochar. The following link is just one or these reports?
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/447857/DPI-BioChar-in-Horticulture.pdf>Many
years ago, on the advise of my green fingered uncle, I planted peas over
trenches that I had buried charaoal. And yes it was the worst crop of peas
that I had ever grown. The charcoal had sucked all nutrient out of the
ground.
>Now days I inoculate my charcoal with compost teas, effective
microbial teas and other biological brews. The charcoal can then be referred
to as biochar. This gives excellent results. Increased yields, more robust
plants and less need of water and fertilisers.
>The degraded block of
land I am clearing and trying to rejuvenate is benefiting from the carbon I am
returning to the ground. This is much preferable to?burning windrows?and
sending it into the atmosphere
>
>
>Rob
Wilson.
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
From: John D'hondt <
dhondt@eircom.net>
>To:
Healthy soil and sustainable growing <
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
>Sent: Saturday, 28 September 2013 8:31 AM
>Subject: Re:
[Livingontheland] about climate
>
>
>I am so glad that at
last an official scientific institute
has come out
>against ""Biochar"". I have been writing
about this for
ten years
at least
>since I first did tests with it. I found seedlings
and
plants to grow less
>vigorous with charcoal than without. And this is nothing
but logical.
>Charcoal is the
oldest wood preservative known to man
because all soil
>organisms avoid it like the
plague.
>John
>
_______________________________________________
Livingontheland
mailing list
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland--------------
next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/livingontheland/attachments/20130929/d61ad0a8/attachment-0001.html------------------------------
Message:
4
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 22:19:21 +0100
From: "John D'hondt" <
dhondt@eircom.net>
Subject: Re:
[Livingontheland] about climate
To: "Healthy soil and sustainable
growing"
<
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<
11AF75B0057646C988632971BA0E9E29@Targadc5fefe82d>
Content-Type:
text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
It is a strange phenomenon. "Bio" is the word
the old Greeks used for "Life"
and charcoal is deader than the dodo. It
remains unchanged for a very long
time. Life is change, growing trees and
lots of life in the soil. Charcoal
does not contribute to life at all
since it remains unchanged.
It is really a pity that the worse the problems
of the environment become
the more simplistic and dangerous the popular
"solutions" become.
John
> I'm glad they're coming out against
biochar finally also!
> Around here they are cutting down trees to make
biochar. Disgusting!
> Thank you for the article!
> Yes John I so
agree with you about the biochar charcoal.
>
> On Sep 27, 2013, at
3:31 PM, "John D'hondt" <
dhondt@eircom.net>
wrote:
>
>> I am so glad that at last an official scientific
institute has come out
>> against ""Biochar"". I have been writing
about this for ten years at
>> least
>> since I first did
tests with it. I found seedlings and plants to grow
>>
less
>> vigorous with charcoal than without. And this is nothing but
logical.
>> Charcoal is the oldest wood preservative known to man
because all soil
>> organisms avoid it like the plague.
>>
John
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:
"tradingpost" <
tradingpost@lobo.net>
>>
To: <
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
>>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 5:55 PM
>> Subject:
[Livingontheland] about climate
>>
>>
>>>
Surviving Global Warming, Localized Food & Energy Systems
#climate
>>>
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Surviving_Global_Warming.php>>>
>>>
Beware the Biochar Initiative
>>> Turning bioenergy crops into
buried charcoal to sequester carbon does
>>> not work, and could
plunge the earth into an oxygen crisis towards mass
>>>
extinction
>>>
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/bewareTheBiocharInitiative.php>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>
Livingontheland mailing list
>>>
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>>>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland>>>
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
>> Livingontheland
mailing list
>>
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland>
_______________________________________________
> Livingontheland
mailing list
>
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun,
29 Sep 2013 22:29:23 +0100
From: "John D'hondt" <
dhondt@eircom.net>
Subject: Re:
[Livingontheland] CLIMATE STUDY: EVIDENCE LEANS AGAINST
HUMAN-CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING
To: "Healthy soil and sustainable
growing"
<
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<
1D8DA134942D42629B3729AD516CB1A6@Targadc5fefe82d>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
You are not alone in not trusting
governments Lori. Government is run by and for the big corporations to make
the rich richer.
There is only one rule and that is to maximize profit and
the mess they leave is for the 99%.
However from what I see it are the
big corporations that push for destruction of the environment, drilling ever
deeper for oil is only one aspect. I find it strange that this is were you
seem to support government and the corporations. Can you name thirty
scientists who are suing Al Gore? What for?
John
----- Original
Message -----
From: Lori
To:
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 12:37 AM
Subject: Re:
[Livingontheland] CLIMATE STUDY: EVIDENCE LEANS AGAINST HUMAN-CAUSED GLOBAL
WARMING
Here's the problem: The IPCC is a governmental
panel. I don't trust anything run by ANY government. Show me independent
research supporting your premise and tell me why 30,000 scientists are suing
Al Gore.
http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/249-al-gore-sued-by-30000-scientists-for-global-warming-fraud.html
BTW, I thought that this was a quorum where people were allowed to speak their
minds not a quorum where people got attacked for not agreeing with someone.
So no, it is not a joke nor did I appreciate your comment.
It was rude.
Yes, I understand that many corporations lie,
cheat, and steal from the American public. That doesn't mean that everything
that someone says that supports their agenda is a liar. I'm certainly
not a cheating liar. I care a lot about our planet. What I want is
for us to be energy independent. I want us to invest in alternative
energy. But I do not want to do it because someone in the Senate or
Congress has been bought by an alternative energy company or if some man in
West Virginia is going to lose his job and not be able to feed his family or
because environmental quacks refuse to allow drilling to bring up the vast
reserves of oil we have in Alaska or watch manufacturing companies in our
country shut down because they can't afford to meet the ridiculous regulations
for clean air and water.
Things have got to slow down
a little until the research can catch up and we can power our factories
cleaner and CHEAPER. Otherwise this boat is going to go down with all of us in
it and then where will we be with all our clean air and water? Sure, it
will be healthier and that is what we all want, but at what cost?
Everyone has an agenda, even world governments.
Honestly, I don't believe we'll see real change until we can figure out a way
to keep our leaders from being bought. It's not just the big
corporations that are dirty.
Lori
-----Original Message-----
From:
tradingpost <
tradingpost@lobo.net>
To: livingontheland <
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:05 am
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland]
CLIMATE STUDY: EVIDENCE LEANS AGAINST HUMAN-CAUSED GLOBAL
WARMING
That's got to be a joke, right?
Surely you can't be unaware of who or what Breitbart is, or that billionaire
criminals fund Heartland Institute? Then do some homework.
Hint: fossil fuel corporations write that drivel, slant everything, & lie
like hell to protect their obscene profits. AND pay no income taxes.
Compare to: IPCC #Climate Change Report Expresses Extreme
Confidence In Human Cause Of Global Warming
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/27/ipcc-climate-change-report_n_4000153.html
paul
tradingpost@lobo.net
-------------------------------------
On 9/27/2013 3:05 PM, Lori
wrote:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/16/PLS-HOLD-FOR-TUESDAY-9-17-AFTER-11AM-ET-Climate-Study-Evidence-Leans-Against-Human-Caused-Global-Warming
_______________________________________________
Livingontheland
mailing list
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland_______________________________________________
Livingontheland
mailing list
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Livingontheland
mailing list
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland--------------
next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/livingontheland/attachments/20130929/c80ce62b/attachment-0001.html------------------------------
Message:
6
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 22:33:07 -0500
From: Dan Conine <
dconine@bertramwireless.com>
Subject:
Re: [Livingontheland] Climate study
To:
livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.orgMessage-ID:
<
5248F0F3.5060503@bertramwireless.com>
Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I think too much time is
wasted on the arguments over who says what when
and why. It is apparent
that our current human leadership is lost and
locked in a death spiral of
corporate monetary corruption and problem
avoidance. Scientists of all
stripes try to find answers while being
forced to come up with 'marketing'
strategies to 'sell' their data
instead of continuing their work and
having reliable organizations and
leadership to back them up when they do
their jobs correctly.
In the meantime, the point of this list seemed to be
for pragmatism and
usefulness in the face of a variety of agricultural
circumstances.
I think that it is up to farmers to seek out and create new
channels to
obtain accurate climate information so that they can adapt to
the
changes, regardless of what the politicians fail to do. Politicians
only
care about politics, not farming. The power of farm politics is in
the
handfuls of money that comes from the food processors and pesticide
corporations. That means the politicians are going to agree to anything
that keeps those buckets of money coming in.
The politicians will pay
for studies until the cows are all dead if it
means avoiding the
responsibility of choosing one endorsement over
another. As long as they
don't choose, both sides will give them money.
Dan C.
SE WI,
USA
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Livingontheland
mailing list
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingonthelandEnd
of Livingontheland Digest, Vol 410, Issue
1
***********************************************
