Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[Pego Rice <firekeeper38@yahoo.com>]

Bogus-----> CLIMATE STUDY: EVIDENCE

 

You really need to be aware of the money behind books like this.  Many of the people who are sussed up are "Close but no potato", like Cliff Harris and Randy Mann, both employed as local-level TV weather faces, only one of which even took an BS in meteorology.  Both, however run a denier blog and are receiving "donations" from fossil fuel and are considered "Scientific Experts" in these sorts of bullhockey denier peices.  Anyone can file a suit.  It is BS generated JUST so that the industries can anounce hit-pieces against more credible scientitsts and organizations.

 

Try reading through this instead; http://www.skepticalscience.com/Consensus-study-most-downloaded-paper-Institute-Physics-journals.html

 

Yours, Pego

On Monday, September 30, 2013 11:01 AM, "livingontheland-request@lists.ibiblio.org" <livingontheland-request@lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: about climate (Harvey Ussery)
  2. Re: about climate (John D'hondt)
  3. Re: about climate (Rob Wilson)
  4. Re: about climate (John D'hondt)
  5. Re: CLIMATE STUDY: EVIDENCE LEANS AGAINST    HUMAN-CAUSED GLOBAL
      WARMING (John D'hondt)
  6. Re: Climate study (Dan Conine)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 08:08:55 -0400
From: Harvey Ussery <harvey@themodernhomestead.us>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] about climate
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <52481857.6030900@themodernhomestead.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

On 09/28/2013 10:52 PM, tradingpost wrote:
> As I understand it, living forests sequester more CO2 while producing
> O2 than burning them down to make biochar.

Let's not forget the enormous potential for sequestering carbon in soil
with big changes in the way we do agriculture. I highly recommend COWS
SAVE THE PLANET by Judith Schwartz (Chelsea Green 2013). She reports the
work of a number of researchers who believe that we could change the
CO2/climate equations much faster than most of us imagine by switching
to agricultural practices that sequester soil carbon--grasslands plus
grazing livestock and the like. Check it out.

~Harvey

--
Harvey in northern Virginia
www.themodernhomestead.us

My book /The Small-Scale Poultry Flock/ (Chelsea Green, 2011) is
available at
www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/the_smallscale_poultry_flock
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 21:56:49 +0100
From: "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] about climate
To: "Rob Wilson" <robwilson5095@yahoo.com>,    "Healthy soil and
    sustainable growing" <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <E1FD750BD4EA4CF98BCE00E8A1447818@Targadc5fefe82d>
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To me "bio" char is just a new-speak word to sell charcoal better Rob. Should you not better try compost teas, microbial teas and other biological brews on their own without the black stuff before you ascribe a growth miracle to charcoal?
I have tried charcoal not only on seedlings but in plant beds as well since I have it available most of the time anyway. I had beds with and without and with and without the brews that you mention and I saw results from the teas and nothing from the charcoal. Zilch, nada, nothing. I do see results from hugelcultur, putting real timber underground and letting the soil microbes and fungi do the job of breaking timber down.

I know that the net is full of articles waxing euphoric about "bio-char". It is extremely fashionable. Even Dr. Mercola seems to be sold on it these days. I have yet to see anybody doing real tests with controls so until people do it is no more than an emperor without clothes. And I have every reason to believe it is extremely damaging to the environment. See how much energy it costs to make charcoal yourself and how much carbon dioxide is spewed into the air while doing it. A quick calculation tells me that you likely bring 20 times more CO2 into the air than you sequester with the end product. Real pyrolysation is less damaging but who can afford such an installation?

I do think that activated charcoal can be a fantastic health material. It used to be readily available for all kinds of digestive problems. And it is great in case of poisoning.
And it can bind to pesticides and other toxins in the soil and make those inactive. But you don't need tons of it for that purpose.
John



From: Rob Wilson
  To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
  Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 3:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] about climate


  What utter nonsense. Do not confuse charcoal with biochar.
  John I suggest you read the attached comments.
  Here in Australia the much revered CSIRO  and other Government primary industry bodies have been conducting large scale broad acre trials with biochar. All report positive outcomes from the application of biochar. The following link is just one or these reports http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/447857/DPI-BioChar-in-Horticulture.pdf
  Many years ago, on the advise of my green fingered uncle, I planted peas over trenches that I had buried charaoal. And yes it was the worst crop of peas that I had ever grown. The charcoal had sucked all nutrient out of the ground.
  Now days I inoculate my charcoal with compost teas, effective microbial teas and other biological brews. The charcoal can then be referred to as biochar. This gives excellent results. Increased yields, more robust plants and less need of water and fertilisers.
  The degraded block of land I am clearing and trying to rejuvenate is benefiting from the carbon I am returning to the ground. This is much preferable to burning windrows and sending it into the atmosphere


  Rob Wilson.





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net>
  To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  Sent: Saturday, 28 September 2013 8:31 AM
  Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] about climate


  I am so glad that at last an official scientific institute has come out
  against ""Biochar"". I have been writing about this for ten years at least
  since I first did tests with it. I found seedlings and plants to grow less
  vigorous with charcoal than without. And this is nothing but logical.
  Charcoal is the oldest wood preservative known to man because all soil
  organisms avoid it like the plague.
  John

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>
  To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 5:55 PM
  Subject: [Livingontheland] about climate


  > Surviving Global Warming, Localized Food & Energy Systems #climate
  > http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Surviving_Global_Warming.php
  >
  > Beware the Biochar Initiative
  > Turning bioenergy crops into buried charcoal to sequester carbon does
  > not work, and could plunge the earth into an oxygen crisis towards mass
  > extinction
  > http://www.i-sis.org.uk/bewareTheBiocharInitiative.php
  > _______________________________________________
  > Livingontheland mailing list
  > Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
  > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland
  >

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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 14:13:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rob Wilson <robwilson5095@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] about climate
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
    <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <1380489223.7611.YahooMailNeo@web121103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Tradingpost, no one is suggesting burning down forests to make biochar. There is enough woody weeds and crop residue for these purposes.

Rob


________________________________
From: tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net>
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2013 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] about climate




As I understand it, living forests sequester more CO2 while
      producing O2 than burning them down to make biochar.
paul tradingpost@lobo.net


On 9/28/2013 8:21 PM, Rob Wilson wrote:

What utter nonsense. Do not confuse charcoal with biochar.
>John I suggest you read the attached comments.
>Here in Australia the much revered CSIRO ?and other Government primary industry bodies have been conducting large scale broad acre trials with biochar. All report positive outcomes from the application of biochar. The following link is just one or these reports?http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/447857/DPI-BioChar-in-Horticulture.pdf
>Many years ago, on the advise of my green fingered uncle, I planted peas over trenches that I had buried charaoal. And yes it was the worst crop of peas that I had ever grown. The charcoal had sucked all nutrient out of the ground.
>Now days I inoculate my charcoal with compost teas, effective microbial teas and other biological brews. The charcoal can then be referred to as biochar. This gives excellent results. Increased yields, more robust plants and less need of water and fertilisers.
>The degraded block of land I am clearing and trying to rejuvenate is benefiting from the carbon I am returning to the ground. This is much preferable to?burning windrows?and sending it into the atmosphere
>
>
>Rob Wilson.
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net>
>To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
>Sent: Saturday, 28 September 2013 8:31 AM
>Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] about climate
>
>
>I am so glad that at last an official scientific institute
              has come out
>against ""Biochar"". I have been writing about this for
              ten years at least
>since I first did tests with it. I found seedlings and
              plants to grow less
>vigorous with charcoal than without. And this is nothing
              but logical.
>Charcoal is the oldest wood preservative known to man
              because all soil
>organisms avoid it like the plague.
>John
>

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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 22:19:21 +0100
From: "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] about climate
To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing"
    <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <11AF75B0057646C988632971BA0E9E29@Targadc5fefe82d>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original


It is a strange phenomenon. "Bio" is the word the old Greeks used for "Life"
and charcoal is deader than the dodo. It remains unchanged for a very long
time. Life is change, growing trees and lots of life in the soil. Charcoal
does not contribute to life at all since it remains unchanged.
It is really a pity that the worse the problems of the environment become
the more simplistic and dangerous the popular "solutions" become.
John

> I'm glad they're coming out against biochar finally also!
> Around here they are cutting down trees to make biochar. Disgusting!
> Thank you for the article!
> Yes John I so agree with you about the biochar charcoal.
>
> On Sep 27, 2013, at 3:31 PM, "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> I am so glad that at last an official scientific institute has come out
>> against ""Biochar"". I have been writing about this for ten years at
>> least
>> since I first did tests with it. I found seedlings and plants to grow
>> less
>> vigorous with charcoal than without. And this is nothing but logical.
>> Charcoal is the oldest wood preservative known to man because all soil
>> organisms avoid it like the plague.
>> John
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>
>> To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 5:55 PM
>> Subject: [Livingontheland] about climate
>>
>>
>>> Surviving Global Warming, Localized Food & Energy Systems #climate
>>> http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Surviving_Global_Warming.php
>>>
>>> Beware the Biochar Initiative
>>> Turning bioenergy crops into buried charcoal to sequester carbon does
>>> not work, and could plunge the earth into an oxygen crisis towards mass
>>> extinction
>>> http://www.i-sis.org.uk/bewareTheBiocharInitiative.php
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Livingontheland mailing list
>>> Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Livingontheland mailing list
>> Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland
> _______________________________________________
> Livingontheland mailing list
> Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland
>



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 22:29:23 +0100
From: "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] CLIMATE STUDY: EVIDENCE LEANS AGAINST
    HUMAN-CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING
To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing"
    <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <1D8DA134942D42629B3729AD516CB1A6@Targadc5fefe82d>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

You are not alone in not trusting governments Lori. Government is run by and for the big corporations to make the rich richer.
There is only one rule and that is to maximize profit and the mess they leave is for the 99%.

However from what I see it are the big corporations that push for destruction of the environment, drilling ever deeper for oil is only one aspect. I find it strange that this is were you seem to support government and the corporations. Can you name thirty scientists who are suing Al Gore? What for?
John
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Lori
  To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
  Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 12:37 AM
  Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] CLIMATE STUDY: EVIDENCE LEANS AGAINST HUMAN-CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING


  Here's the problem:  The IPCC is a governmental panel.  I don't trust anything run by ANY government. Show me independent research supporting your premise and tell me why 30,000 scientists are suing Al Gore. 


  http://healthwyze.org/index.php/component/content/article/249-al-gore-sued-by-30000-scientists-for-global-warming-fraud.html


  BTW, I thought that this was a quorum where people were allowed to speak their minds not a quorum where people got attacked for not agreeing with someone.


  So no, it is not a joke nor did I appreciate your comment. It was rude.


  Yes, I understand that many corporations lie, cheat, and steal from the American public. That doesn't mean that everything that someone says that supports their agenda is a liar.  I'm certainly not a cheating liar.  I care a lot about our planet.  What I want is for us to be energy independent. I want us to invest in alternative energy.  But I do not want to do it because someone in the Senate or Congress has been bought by an alternative energy company or if some man in West Virginia is going to lose his job and not be able to feed his family or because environmental quacks refuse to allow drilling to bring up the vast reserves of oil we have in Alaska or watch manufacturing companies in our country shut down because they can't afford to meet the ridiculous regulations for clean air and water. 


  Things have got to slow down a little until the research can catch up and we can power our factories cleaner and CHEAPER. Otherwise this boat is going to go down with all of us in it and then where will we be with all our clean air and water?  Sure, it will be healthier and that is what we all want, but at what cost? 


  Everyone has an agenda, even world governments.  Honestly, I don't believe we'll see real change until we can figure out a way to keep our leaders from being bought.  It's not just the big corporations that are dirty. 


  Lori



  -----Original Message-----
  From: tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net>
  To: livingontheland <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  Sent: Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:05 am
  Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] CLIMATE STUDY: EVIDENCE LEANS AGAINST HUMAN-CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING



  That's got to be a joke, right?
  Surely you can't be unaware of who or what Breitbart is, or that billionaire criminals fund Heartland Institute? Then do some homework.

  Hint: fossil fuel corporations write that drivel, slant everything, & lie like hell to protect their obscene profits. AND pay no income taxes.

  Compare to:  IPCC #Climate Change Report Expresses Extreme Confidence In Human Cause Of Global Warming http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/27/ipcc-climate-change-report_n_4000153.html

  paul tradingpost@lobo.net
  -------------------------------------

  On 9/27/2013 3:05 PM, Lori wrote:

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/16/PLS-HOLD-FOR-TUESDAY-9-17-AFTER-11AM-ET-Climate-Study-Evidence-Leans-Against-Human-Caused-Global-Warming
   

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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 22:33:07 -0500
From: Dan Conine <dconine@bertramwireless.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Climate study
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <5248F0F3.5060503@bertramwireless.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I think too much time is wasted on the arguments over who says what when
and why. It is apparent that our current human leadership is lost and
locked in a death spiral of corporate monetary corruption and problem
avoidance. Scientists of all stripes try to find answers while being
forced to come up with 'marketing' strategies to 'sell' their data
instead of continuing their work and having reliable organizations and
leadership to back them up when they do their jobs correctly.
In the meantime, the point of this list seemed to be for pragmatism and
usefulness in the face of a variety of agricultural circumstances.
I think that it is up to farmers to seek out and create new channels to
obtain accurate climate information so that they can adapt to the
changes, regardless of what the politicians fail to do. Politicians only
care about politics, not farming. The power of farm politics is in the
handfuls of money that comes from the food processors and pesticide
corporations. That means the politicians are going to agree to anything
that keeps those buckets of money coming in.
The politicians will pay for studies until the cows are all dead if it
means avoiding the responsibility of choosing one endorsement over
another. As long as they don't choose, both sides will give them money.

Dan C.
SE WI, USA



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