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  • From: "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>
  • To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [Livingontheland] great discussion/ Two agricultures not one
  • Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 20:01:35 -0600


Definitely, Barbara M, great discussion. And good to see so many jumping in
on it. Since starting this list years ago I've see many other lists related
(supposedly) to our general subject area but no other list so targeted with
consistently intelligent viewpoints and useful information. And from people
doing something, not just talking about doing something.

paul tradingpost@lobo.net

"Our redemption will be found closer to the ground in the things we do by
hand."
~ James Howard Kunstler

“We need to launch an Organic Green Revolution that fundamentally changes
the way we grow our food to maximize yield while mitigating climate change,
restoring clean water, building soils, and protecting agricultural production
during times of drought.”
~ Tim LaSalle, Rodale Institute CEO
Ripe for Revolution event, New York City

"How do you move from a system which has built in destruction of the
planet and built in devastation for local communities and local economies and
transition back to systems which formerly worked and new environmentally
sustainable systems? That’s the project of our time."
~ Jerry Mander

"To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic... And if we do
act, in however small a way, we don’t have to wait for some grand utopian
future. The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as
we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us,
is itself a marvelous victory."
~ Howard Zinn

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 9/27/2010 at 3:09 PM Barbara Money wrote:

>Interesting take on the subject, Mike. It sounds like you are talking
>about a net-zero loss or gain, a steady state? But taken from a purely
>practical standpoint, then nothing is sustainable, at least in a limited
>geographical area; it may be sustainable if taking it globally. Even
>after reading a lot of material about homesteading and growing all one's
>own food, etc., it seems to me there *have* to be some non-local inputs
>(meaning non-local to the farm itself, could be another farm, say). One
>couldn't live only on one's own tomatoes, for example, you'd need
>different foods that may come from other farms or even other regions.(
>Where do folks in the higher lattitudes get vitamin C in the winter, if
>not for oranges?) Though trading for other foods, then using that gained
>energy (labor) on one's own farm would "cancel" out the input.
>
>I can see how harvesting leaf litter would destroy a forest; it depends
>on it for its own fertility. Apparently the forest in question doesn't
>produce any extra from the sun, water and air inputs. Other forests in
>different climates may produce more. By that same token, a farm in a
>very "rich" or fertile location could produce more than is used, and
>have a net gain.
>
>If that doesn't make sense (smile), try this example: I live on 5+
>mostly wooded acres. I have maybe 900 square feet total (very rough
>guess) in food production, for our own use, and maybe to give some to
>friends. We burn wood for heat, but don't have enough trees to cut only
>our own; we have to buy several cords each year. I'm considering
>chickens for next year; again, I would have to buy feed as I have no
>space to grow the seeds, grains, etc to feed them as they wouldn't get
>enough protein (I don't think) just foraging. This of course, doesn't
>take into account things like inputs to keep entropy at bay (building
>repairs etc.). I think then, the calculation of just food production
>cannot be separated from other factors. As we all know, everything is
>connected!
>
>Great discussion.
>
>Barbara M
>Foster, RI
>
>--
>"Animals Are A Gift"
>
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