Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[Smittyctz6 <cityhomesteader@gmail.com>]

we have PLENTY of Rain here inland from the Long Island sound in South Eastern CT.
As a matter for fact it is raining AGAIN Groan.. I wanted to plant my Multiplier onions, top onions and garlic this weekend. Cold and wet in ct

On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 3:43 AM, Dieter Brand <diebrand@yahoo.com> wrote:

The vegan option is only possible on fertile land with plenty of rain.  For all other regions it is extremely difficult to farm without manure if you don’t want to rely on synthetic fertilizers.  Here, conditions are so severe that even cows can’t survive.  Traditional farming here has always relied on goat manure.  This concentrates fertility from the surrounding hillsides, where you can’t grow anything anyways, on your fields or garden.  In other words, the solution you adopt depends on local conditions.  One solution is not per se better than others.  As to buying horse manure etc., that is the extension of consumerism into modern farming.  Traditional farmers have always produced most fertility on-site.

 

Dieter Brand
Portugal


--- On Sat, 10/17/09, mdnagel@verizon.net <mdnagel@verizon.net> wrote:

From: mdnagel@verizon.net <mdnagel@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Back to Traditional Farming to Beat Climate Change - Herder Vs. Farmer
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 8:14 AM

but I would truck in horse manure and keep a few rabbits in a house-tractor to trim bits of lawn

Harvey, and others like him, is advocating for a more long-term sustainable practice.  Whether it is "convenient" or not is not the issue: convenience at the cost of sustainability is a dead end.

Just how long do you think one can TRUCK in horse manure?  And horses, sorry if I offend anyone here, are of really limited value: look around the world today and see what animals are employed, they're primarily oxen and water buffalo; horses, for their keep, offer very little in comparison.

You cannot on one hand lash out at farm animals and then on the other rely on their "by-products."

Are animals a lot of work?  Yes, but working animals also perform a LOT of work.  And when looking at it from the angle of sustainability vs. convenience one can find more clarity.


-Mark Nagel
Everett, WA


Oct 16, 2009 08:40:08 AM, livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:

re: Back to Traditional Farming to Beat Climate Change
Harvey Ussery <www.themodernhomestead.us> wrote a rebuttal to my soundbite. Harvey and I are replaying one of the oldest conflicts in human history, between the herder and the farmer.

Now, Harvey has written terrific informative posts over the years, and has an excellent website. He wisely counsels for integrated farming methods. I had written about Bird Flu, whose primary vectors are the large numbers and concentrations of domesticated birds, in CAFO's and intensive farms. Thankfully, there is a world of difference between the work that Harvey promotes, and industrial farming that is the USA reality, that externalize their pollution and their fuel consumption.

I wrote a short truncated pair of paragraphs about the science of Bird Flu. My conclusion was a bit too direct in support of vegetarian option as a way to save the world as it heads for ever-increasing populations.

I had written the tagline 'The best solution is a the "veggie" option.' I have had goats, chickens, ducks, rabbits and headaches on 8 acres. I am not going back to the never-ending responsibility of raising animals for food, but I would truck in horse manure and keep a few rabbits in a house-tractor to trim bits of lawn. Animals are trouble and relatively costly when compared to the bounty of nuts, vegetables and fruits neighbors have been able to harvest, although it took them all many years to get to this point. And I buy my honey, eggs and goat dairy from people I know nearby.

Unfortunately, the USA and the world economies involved in Free Trade Agreements, gets divided into those that support industrial farming Vs. those that prefer local food systems. Harvey is an expert supporter of the local food systems, like Joel Salatin, etc. But this LivingontheLand list is a flea on the ox of industrial ag that is trampling the Americas.

Coincidentally, on the same day as Harvey's reponse, Norma wrote:
"IMO smaller livestock does better. When used for meat they are easier to process on the farm and even though they
are smaller the bone to meat ratio is better so much of the time you get more meat percentage wise from a small animal then from a large one."

and also Morgan wrote:
"Morgan, who has miniature goats and lives in the land of acres per cow, not cows per acre."

I am certain Harvey supports riparian zones to keep cattle away from streams, and other controversial limits on these walking-one-ton environmental disasters. Environmental degradation at the hooves of big animals has brought blight and erosion to millions of acres in my lifetime. That, and impressive results for my personal health, have steered me towards fishy vegetarianism.

On the other hand, I wrote my opinion about "the veggie option" based on my own experience with the neighbors' cows trampling my garden, goats exterminating my perennials, and chickens laying waste to just about anything. If the world population continues to consume meat, Harvey's techniques need to be made law and soon!

It is still unclear who is responsible for the fences - the herder or the farmer?

Zack

_______________________________________________
Livingontheland mailing list
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Livingontheland mailing list
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland

_______________________________________________
Livingontheland mailing list
Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland

-- 
Bruce Smith
InHisThyme Homestead 

@{--+----+------+------------

A little faith will bring your soul to heaven, but a lot of faith will bring heaven to your soul.  ~Author Unknown