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  • From: "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>
  • To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [Livingontheland] Solar and Wind are not renewable
  • Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 15:38:52 -0700


Just one snag: the raw materials for manufacturing PVC, wind etc. are not
renewable. Some components of batteries for example are vulnerable to
scarcity and unaffordable prices. Aluminum uses high energy to process
bauxite. Bottom line: all manufacturing uses fossil fuels to run and to
make the equipment for manufacture. These parts of the process are easy to
overlook. However, there are renewable organic substitutes for fossil fuels
in lubricants, plastics and manufacturing processes. Hemp oil may be in our
future.

I read that the biggest obstacle to alternative energy is the sheer cost of
conversion. Obama wants to double alternative energy but that's not even a
drop in the bucket. We're going to do a lot less manufacturing and a lot
more low tech or appropriate technology. Never mind bankruptcy or loss of
retirement; many will starve. And that's going to force us a lot closer to
the land itself.

paul tradingpost@lobo.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 2/8/2009 at 10:32 AM SALTMINES@aol.com wrote:

&gt;In a message dated 2/8/2009 10:02:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
&gt;tradingpost@lobo.net writes
&gt;
&gt;The opening statement:
&gt;
&gt;&quot;Solar and Wind are not renewable. The energy from solar and from
wind is
&gt;available but not renewable. An oak tree is renewable. A horse is
&gt;renewable. They reproduce themselves.&quot;
&gt;
&gt;and:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&quot;As fossil fuels become less available, judicious use of the
remaining
&gt;reserves becomes even more important. We must come to realize that
fossil
&gt;fuels (as well as concentrated sources of minerals) are a gift from
the
&gt;earth and previous to life. To mistakenly call solar or wind energy
&gt;renewable and include the capturing mechanisms leads to both false
hopes
&gt;and perhaps poor allocation of limited fossil fuels and funds.&quot;,
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;might be modified by the following observation:
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;It seems to me that 'down the road', as we extract more and more energy

&gt;from
&gt;solar/tidal/hydro/wind generation techniques, it is the energy from
those

&gt;sources that will be used to create the next round and continuing
&gt;generations of
&gt; energy. Eventually there would be no reliance on any fossil 'fuels'
for

&gt;energy, though they would still be needed for producing various
&gt;lubricants,
&gt;plastics and manufacturing processes.
&gt;
&gt;In a sense it's going to be sort of like the 'replicatiors' of science

&gt;fiction (and the non-fiction of nano engine replication!).
&gt;
&gt;Viewed in this light (!) solar, wind, and other 'on-going' accessible
&gt;sources of usable energy could be seen as renewable.
&gt;
&gt;Just my thoughts; comforting, at least to me.
&gt;
&gt;Stephen (staying warm in West Michigan)





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