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livingontheland - Re: [Livingontheland] Price of Ferilizer/fuel

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Subject: Healthy soil and sustainable growing

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  • From: "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>
  • To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Price of Ferilizer/fuel
  • Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 00:00:23 -0600


Well, it's unfortunate. Nobody's been censored for their opinions here, but
if simple disagreement is a problem then it's your choice. My disagreement is
simple. If anyone on the planet had an economical, profitable way of making
fuel from algae, then we'd hear about it. Nobody does. As soon as someone
comes up with an efficient algae process, I'll be the first to publicize it.
Until then, wind power is said to be the most realistic and environmentally
benign power source - and it's already a proven and affordable technology.
But this particular debate is getting farther from out list focus.

paul tradingpost@lobo.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 6/2/2008 at 3:34 PM anna Lorrai wrote:

>One lecture I listened to from UC was discussing the Imperial Valley and
>Salton Sea. The agriculture run off from the Imperial Valley and the
>desert close by was said to be a good cycle for growing algae from waste
>water. Waste water from city's could be cleansed by algae growth and the
>algae recycled into fuel. There are now some systems set up that are self
>perpetuating by the gases produced in the process.
>
> I'm sure as you said ," The Devil Is In The Details" There can be bad
>systems and good systems. Fossil Fuel oil has to be pumped, doesn't that
>take energy? Do some research on line about algae biofuels and see what's
>going on. There are always nay sayers when ever something "new" comes
>along and I agree algae has been around awhile as have other alternative
>engines and fuels. It is rumored that many " inventions" have been bought
>up and crushed by big business.
>
> I'm beginning to think this is not the group for me, too many hard
>headed, I'm right men. So bye. Anna
>
>mdnagel@verizon.net wrote:
> The devil is in the details.
>
>That waste water comes from where? And how far does it have to be pumped?
>(NOTE: 10% of all of California's energy is consumed pumping water; this
>isn't a small issue.) More infrastructure, means more long-term
>maintenance.
>
>What might be displaced by such facilities? Keep in mind that nothing
>truly is "wasteland:" everything developed to a certain state as a result
>of balance; what affects would any large-scale change on such "wasteland"
>occur?
>
>There is, and never will be, a concentrated energy source like fossil
>fuels (unless you want to hang around for a few million years).
>Algae-based fuels or any other non-mineral fuels, and even a combination
>of all, will not be able to match existing and future demands. And keep in
>mind that the workhorse, fossil fuels, will continue in decline, which
>leaves us facing an inevitable and ever-increasing energy gap.
>
>ALL energy sources were in some way, most in a large way, the product of
>solar gain. One cannot speed up this process, be it mineral fuels or
>otherwise, without it costing energy in the process: think tar sands
>(speaking of which, they didn't think that their operations would have any
>significant impact on the lands up there in Canada; well, they were
>clearly wrong).
>
>Algae would only perpetuate the faulty transportation-based/centralize
>food system that we now have. Sure, one could advocate that such energy
>sources be produced and used locally, but do you really think that that
>would happen? Not as long as the current "free market" system is operating
>(and is able to subsidize the externalized costs of scaling up such energy
>sources).
>
>
>-Mark Nagel
>Everett, WA
>
>
>From: anna Lorrai
>
>I'm not going to argue with you fellows. I just think you're not getting
>my point. Biofuel from algae doesn't take away from our food source and it
>can be grown on waste water. it's efficient in my opinion. So if that's
>your reality, that's fine, but I would like to see a new reality. Anna
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