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livingontheland - Re: [Livingontheland] Price of Ferilizer/fuel

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Chronological Thread  
  • From: anna Lorrai <cactusandquail@yahoo.com>
  • To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Price of Ferilizer/fuel
  • Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:34:37 -0700 (PDT)

One lecture I listened to from UC was discussing the Imperial Valley and Salton Sea. The agriculture run off from the Imperial Valley and the desert close by was said to be a good cycle for growing algae from waste water.  Waste water from city's could be cleansed by algae growth and the algae recycled into fuel.  There are now some systems set up that are self perpetuating by the gases produced in the process.
 
I'm sure as you said ," The Devil Is In The Details"  There can be bad systems and good systems. Fossil Fuel oil has to be pumped, doesn't that take energy?  Do some research on line about algae biofuels and see what's going on.  There are always nay sayers when ever something "new" comes along and I agree algae has been around awhile as have other alternative engines and fuels. It is rumored that many " inventions" have been bought up and crushed by big business. 
 
I'm beginning to think this is not the group for me, too many hard headed, I'm right men.  So bye.  Anna

mdnagel@verizon.net wrote:
The devil is in the details.

That waste water comes from where? And how far does it have to be pumped? (NOTE: 10% of all of California's energy is consumed pumping water; this isn't a small issue.) More infrastructure, means more long-term maintenance.

What might be displaced by such facilities? Keep in mind that nothing truly is "wasteland:" everything developed to a certain state as a result of balance; what affects would any large-scale change on such "wasteland" occur?

There is, and never will be, a concentrated energy source like fossil fuels (unless you want to hang around for a few million years). Algae-based fuels or any other non-mineral fuels, and even a combination of all, will not be able to match existing and future demands. And keep in mind that the workhorse, fossil fuels, will continue in decline, which leaves us facing an inevitable and ever-increasing energy gap.

ALL energy sources were in some way, most in a large way, the product of solar gain. One cannot speed up this process, be it mineral fuels or otherwise, without it costing energy in the process: think tar sands (speaking of which, they didn't think that their operations would have any significant impact on the lands up there in Canada; well, they were clearly wrong).

Algae would only perpetuate the faulty transportation-based/centralize food system that we now have. Sure, one could advocate that such energy sources be produced and used locally, but do you really think that that would happen? Not as long as the current "free market" system is operating (and is able to subsidize the externalized costs of scaling up such energy sources).


-Mark Nagel
Everett, WA


From: anna Lorrai

I'm not going to argue with you fellows. I just think you're not getting my point. Biofuel from algae doesn't take away from our food source and it can be grown on waste water. it's efficient in my opinion. So if that's your reality, that's fine, but I would like to see a new reality. Anna
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