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  • From: "Harold and Sue Karber" <karber@pldi.net>
  • To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Market farming
  • Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:01:17 -0500

my two cents.....on Agribusiness...local supply.
Agribusiness is when those who have no connection to the land suck value from the land be it sustainability, pollutions of land, water and/or quality of produced food value etc., degrades the infrastructure of the area. The tyranny of the system is those who direct the production use labor as a machine which is disposable and replaceable thus those who work the land/animals are disposable and are to produce at slave wages making none of the decisions just act as a machine carrying out order to produce the most at the lowest cost regardless of the quality of the finished product. Use of chemicals or pollutants are not part of the workers thought process, they are to just do it and not question the long term effect on the consumer, land or water. Decisions are made from far off and everyone and everything is a commodity...period. Much of our food is imported even with huge transport costs the cost of the food is cheap because the labor is slave labor and disposable. To function at that level to produce more at lower costs not caring about quality only quantity one must become cheaper than slave labor and ignore the eventual cost to the food value itself, the environment and the infrastructure of the community. I am probably the most conservative person on this group and that makes me KNOW that agribusiness is economic and social suicide. The short run is big pay off economically for those far off managers/contractors/CAFO/Corporate Ag. but the long run is economic disaster and what we pay in the long run for today's cheap food imports and destructive practices will make us either dead from hunger eventually or slaves willing to work for a meal a day for ourselves and our children and grandchildren. What does not get destroyed with chemicals, pollutions will be moved to cheaper and cheaper labor areas with the aftermath of American food supply being captive to the price demanded by those who control the supply line from far off. If you can pay you can eat, if you can't pay you will sell your soul for a meal lowering your economic stance to below slave labor. Think about it. Local Supply and ability to feed ourselves is the only real security and that has to be sustainable or we are a captive people to those who can charge what they want for bare existence nourishment.
If you want real food security, real security then today is the day to start feeding yourself and your local community and make the land better so tomorrow will be more secure.
Sue Karber Oklahoma
If you put someone down then put them down on your prayer list.
No to NAIS
The scariest thing isn't the daily news; it's our food's lack of Country of Origin Labels (COOL) and
the horrid NAIS to make it worse with eliminating real food safety and family farms for only factory farms.
1% of imports inspected and how many have melamine in the meats/foods and what other unknowns are we feeding our children?
http://www.nonais.org/ technical documents and state groups located on right side bar
http://www.r-calfusa.com
http://www.naissucks.com/ This my good friend Darol Dickerson's site not to be missed. Read about Gun Toting number enforcers.
www.tabletophomestead.org/NAIS.html Oklahoma Cooperative Agreements
http://arkansasanimalproducers.8k.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oklahomans_against_NAIS
www.derrybrownfield.com some of the best commentary and facts on NAIS in the world
http://www.oklahomaanimalproducers.com
Email scanned by Norton Anti Virus
----- Original Message ----- From: "TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>
To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Market farming



We don't really disagree - by treating it as a business I mean paying
attention to what goes into profit and loss. Because if you don't you'll be
*out* of business very soon. And one more grower won't be providing good
healthy food to people. I believe if you look at the big picture,
agribusiness is a rather a corruption of business, a nasty collusion among
corporate criminals and criminal government, taking our tax money and
passing it out mainly to the biggest donors to campaign coffers. This is
far from the honest grower simply working to make a businesslike profit
with a good product and willing buyers.

Some excellent points though that bear repeating. Agree, farmers can't all
move near a good market, and the usual prices don't reflect all the costs
of production - including all the subsidized fossil fuels embedded in the
system.

However, until scarcities and serious contamination problems become
commonplace, growers who aren't near a good market probably shouldn't be
growing. Or should move elsewhere if they want to meet their market. In a
pinch we can probably grow something that will sell locally no matter where
we are. Can't guarantee we'll make a living on it in Hardscrabble, Nevada,
but the fact is most people like to eat three meals a day. And food is
numero uno necessity of life. Then water, shelter, clothing, and Dish
Network ;-)

I think your last paragraph there was most perceptive but I'll stop here
to get back in the garden before the clouds get any darker. Right now I'd
give a lot for some way to transplant tomatoes and squash without getting
down on my knees. It's the getting back up that's slowing me down, even
with a good knee brace.


paul tradingpost@lobo.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 5/24/2007 at 12:19 PM Dan Conine wrote:

1

Time for more detailed reply now. My reply follows below.

paul tradingpost@lobo.net
-------------

The demand is there and growing with every report of recalls and
poisonings. The problem is not customers who won't buy. The problem is
lack
of growers who can treat it as a business. And market growing is a
business
simply because it offers produce in return for money.

When you treat it as a business you don't blame the customer; you
find
what works and put it into practice. Or find a different business or
location. Like any business there are infinite ways to get it wrong.
As in
any business it helps to have some background and experience with it,
like
growing your own at home - not industrial farming.


Yeah. Right. I don't often disagree with you, Paul, and I'm not exactly
disagreeing with you now, but treating growing as a business is exactly
why it became "Agribusiness."
Treating it like a business also means knowing when to exit the
business. I'm taking this year off from losing money at the markets to
restructure and plan for my own survival. One of the factors was that a
farmer I know out East gets 4 (yes, FOUR) times as much for his
vegetables as I can charge at the local market.
I can double my prices if I go to the Big City here, but at the rate of
fuel increases and labor costs, it only gives a wash at this point.
I agree that someone who tries it one year and says customers don't
understand their produce is probably making some mistakes. Large
cucumbers are not the norm at a market. If yours are too big, then they
didn't get picked soon enough. That takes extra labor to keep them under
control, and a first-year farmer won't know how much labor until after
the year is over.
Organic produce doesn't have to look weird or otherwise less than
perfect. The farmer has to figure out how to put labor where petroleum
and hybrid seeds used to go. What is fine for you to eat isn't
necessarily a marketable product.
More people will have a better chance at market farming as store prices
increase. The current prices are nowhere near what they should be when
all the costs are paid, and the nutrition isn't counted as the real
value yet (overfed people don't care about nutrients, only convenience).
A box of cereal is a 4 dollar box, with a couple of cents of grain
tossed into it. As the costs of the boxes go up, more people will look
for ways to buy in bulk and buy grains direct. Just as they did in the
'70's when inflation hit. Back then, there was a lot of 'wiggle' room to
consolidate the grocery chains and economize on storage and shipping.
Since the present state is all WalMart Economized, any more 'squeeze'
put on suppliers will just put the farmers out of business.
Farmers can't all move near a good market, and some places are
stubbornly attached to cheap food prices. Many of the 'making it'
factors are not under the farmers' control, while a few of them are. IF
a farmer is near a good market area, then yes, a good manager/farmer can
make a living at it. If they are not, then they have to go to extreme
measures to create a market, whether through CSA, certified organic, or
value-added processing. These all take extra investment and management
by the farmers themselves, unlike starting a business making widgets,
where there are several paths to get money, management help, and advice
from other business organizations and the government.

The rub with being a small market farmer: if you are successful, you
become self-sufficient. The System of Systems wants you to do things
that make you MORE dependent on the System, not less. Smaller means less
cashflow for the usury-mongers. That's why a milk-flooded market still
provides incentives for farmers to expand:the System makes more money on
the interest for the expansion loans than on the milk itself. The milk
is only a marketing tool for the concrete contractors. Just as ethanol
is only a marketing tool for the factory builders.

Dan



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