Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["ECO FINCA" <ecofinca@hotmail.com>]

As a vegetarian i am more interested in the welfare of the animal than in 
the money profit of the animal. Personally speaking the meat industry is 
redundant.

My neighbourgs have cattle and they pollute and erode intensively the 
sorroundings, not to talk about the animals. They make profit but what a 
price.

Movie about the meat industry in a funny way
http://www.themeatrix.com/index.html


E C O
http://spaces.msn.com/ecofinca/
http://humano.ya.com/ecofinca/




----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ryan Albinger" <ryalbinger@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ryalbinger@earthlink.net,Healthy soil and sustainable growing 
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" 
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] the myth of America feeding 
theworld/wasCompost tea and bugs in a jug
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 07:44:41 -0500

I have some cattle experience- only been responsible for raising a couple
thousand head of youngstock.  General figures: 100-300 pounds will consume
3-5 gallons of water a day and produce 1.5-2.5 pounds of meat through the
following growth curve; 300-1000 will consume 5-10 gallons; and 1000-1500
non-lactating will consume 10-15 gallons; lacating dairy cows about 20-30
gallons of water and producing 9-12 gallons of milk (in weather below about
70 degrees).  Most milking systems and washing will consume under 1/2
gallon water per gallon of milk produced.  Considering these figures per
unit produced, it is a drop in the bucket compared to the average toilet
consuming something like 20 or 30 gallons of potable water per flush.
Feeding byproducts to cattle and meat quality.  Putting a balanced ration
into a confinement animal doesn't appear to make the difference of quality-
green grass pasture seems to be the big difference.  The utilization of
byproduct/coproduct feeds for livestock allows fullest utilization of raw
product.  The US is actually exporting distillers grains from ethanol
plants globally- a 24-27% protein feedstuff.  Many of the byproducts are
used on animal operations within reasonable distance from point of
manufacture.  I know of farms, not saying it is right, that the majority of
their feeds is a byproduct of industry supplemented by some homegrown
feedstuffs and they have some of the highest producing, healthiest cattle.
It's all about saving underutilized resources.  Is is also about
profitability, but the mass market doesn't pay any different on how it is
produced.  And yes, I was serious saying much of this stuff was going to
landfills- follows the old university paradigm of haul the manure in the
woods because buying commercial fertilizer is cheaper.
What about composting these by-products?  Are you willing to pay $40-400 a
ton for compost inputs?  Feeding it through a cow is far more effcient in
food production than through compost.  A 1/4 pound of beef and 3 pounds of
milk can be produced from 1 pound of many of these byproducts in as little
as a day.  1 pound of these byproducts composted makes 1/3 to 1/2 pound of
compost which applied to land could be attributed to making 1/10 a pound of
fresh produce in what 6-12 months at the fastest?  And put through the cow,
you get manure to use on crops or compost to boot.
The best ground is needed for fresh produce.  Case in point, why does the
Imperial valley of California have more produce production than the
Midwest.  Because it has better climate, a better soil, better location.
Yes, you can grow strawberries in the Midwest.  But for almost the same
work, the crop in the Imperial valley would make a higher yield year in and
year out.  Thus it is more practical to grow on the best land.  Not saying
you can't make land better, but you can't change it's climate or location.
On high input/high value crops, it's about maximizing production per unit
of input moreso than less intensive production systems.  In the upper
midwest, when I see big fields of corn replaced by vast fields of
strawberries or melons or fresh salad greens, I'll take back my position.
It can be done, but lacks the value.
Midwest feedlots and crop production for cattle.  As I mentioned before,
talk to these feedlots.  Their rations are loaded with distiller's grains,
cottonseed, wheat midds, soy hulls, corn gluten feed or meal, and/or other
byproducts.  Many of these outfits will base around these feeds as they are
low cost sources of nutrition.  In many cases, it would be cheaper for a
feedlot producing it's own corn to drive right past the farm's grain mill,
take the grain to the elevator, and come back with a load of distiller's.
Their are a lot of acreage of grains produced to feed livestock-indirectly.
The production of ethanol, high fructose corn syrup, flour, grits, and
other human uses takes first seat in crop use, then the cattle clean up.
There are farms that feed what they grow, but the utilzation and demand of
many crops make the secondary byproduct use for cattle the better financial
choice and many byproduct allow you to "build the ideal kernal of corn"
(put together the ratios needed of starch, fiber, protein, and oil content)
Forage production of perenial forages is also the best utilization of a lot
of marginal crop ground.
Ryan

> [Original Message]
> From: TradingPostPaul <tradingpost@riseup.net>
> To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: 6/15/2006 7:54:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] the myth of America feeding the
world/wasCompost tea and bugs in a jug
>
>
> Have you ever raised cattle or studied the subject?  Surely you know the
> enormous amounts of fresh water cattle need, compared to the amount 
needed
> for producing the same amount of food directly for people. Are you 
unaware
> of the effects of all those "byproducts" on animals' meat production, and
> on people eating that meat? How much of those "byproducts" could be put 
to
> better use composted for produce growing directly? I wouldn't haul that
> stuff to the landfill - would you? Sorry but I can't agree that "Food
fruit
> and vegtable production requires such high input that only the most 
suited
> ground is worthy of it".  And "cows joyously consume the bounty of the
> 'unusable' land and provide meat, milk, and other products for the people
> of the world"?  Are you serious? You know nothing of the millions of 
acres
> of corn and other grains grown exclusively for cattle feed in Midwest
> feedlots? And really, beef is largely eaten only by the wealthiest
nations.
>  Let's get our facts first.
>
> paul, tradingpost@riseup.net
> ---------------
> The care of the Earth is our most ancient and most worthy, and after all
> our most pleasing responsibility. To cherish what remains of it and to
> foster its renewal is our only hope.
>    - Wendell Berry
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 6/15/2006 at 6:38 PM Ryan Albinger wrote:
>
> >Cattle are valuable to this country.  Many people do not realize how 
much
> >recycling they are reponsible for.  Cattle and dairy industries utilize
> >many byproducts of human food production- culled chipping potatoes,
> >carrots, chocolate, hominy, old corn starch, corn gluten feed, corn
gluten
> >meal, wheat midds, bakery waste, pizza crust, brewer's grains, fuzzy
> >cottonseed, and many others.  Plus, they utilize the co-products of the
> >ethanol industry- distiller's grains.  The rations are balanced to
> >accomodate these products while not upsetting feed concumption or
nutrient
> >content.  Literally, MANY of these products would have ended up in a
> >landfill somewhere.  How resourceful is that?  Americans and much of the
> >world lead a consumptive lifestyle and waste more fresh water and food 
in
> a
> >day than 10 cattle consume.  And cattle offer the ability to make
marginal
> >ground viable.  Food fruit and vegtable production requires such high
> input
> >that only the most suited ground is worthy of it.  It is too expensive 
to
> >try to make viable production on poor ground and poor climates. 
Meanwhile
> >cows joyously consume the bounty of the 'unusable' land and provide 
meat,
> >milk, and other products for the people of the world.
> >Ryan
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Livingontheland mailing list
> Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland



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