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["Alan MacHett" <machett AT ibiblio.org>]

[DISCLAIMER 1:  I got a bug up me arse, so this gets lengthy; I did a wee
bit of research online.  Haven't been able to find much -- seems the
report I'd *really* like to read is a classified document -- but I'm
running with it anyway.
DISCLAIMER 2:  I don't necessarily believe the argument I'm about to make,
but I got the idea and ran with it.  Admittedly, I haven't even researched
the opposing viewpoint.  I merely wanted to see if *anything* existed to
support my idea, so that's all I've researched.  -- Alan]

M I B:

That's Military-Industrial Bullshit.  It seems some top brass might be
whining for more funding based on the less-than-perfect performance of US
pilots in a joint US-India exercise.  However, that poor performance might
have been ordered from the start in order to obtain tactical intelligence
about one of the latest Russion jets.

It goes something like this.  Late last year and earlier this year the
pilots of the US and Indian air forces met in joint exercises meant to
familiarize each with the skills and methods of the other.  This is due to
the increased "friendship" between us.  The US pilots, however, in keeping
with intelligence interests, are told to hold back a bit, to test the
capabilities of the "enemy" aircraft.  This would be the Soviet-Russian
SU-30, which the US hasn't had much experience with and which is a fairly
impressive aircraft.

The pilots do as ordered, and the Indian pilots appear to gain the upper
hand in the exercises.  By all accounts, either the Indian pilots or the
aircraft or both are much better than the US had previously believed.  The
US doesn't let on that it threw the game.

USAF top brass, citing these apparant failings, plead to Congress for
additional funding to support the latest superjet moneypit and to support
enhancements to training for US pilots who so obviously need it.  They
don't mention that the apparant failings were planned into the mission.

Lies perpetuating lies.

I could *almost* believe the USAF brass.  The Flanker series *is* an
incredible combat aircraft.  The rather large hole in the argument,
though, is the simple fact that all of the countries that might have this
or similar technology fall into one or more of three categories: friend,
most favored nation, other [but so poor that we don't care because their
pilots suck and would be shot down easily].

But Congress will buy into this BS, hook, line, and sinker.  And the USAF,
along with the rest of the military, will get a huge boost in its budget
in order to "maintain Amer'ka's role as global peacekeeper."

-----------------------------------
see:
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/06/23/airforce.supremacy.reut/index.html

U.S. warned it could lose air supremacy
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 Posted: 7:10 PM EDT (2310 GMT)

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- United States must modernize its fighter jets to
maintain air supremacy, a top Air Force general said Wednesday citing the
success of advanced Russian-made jets against American planes in a recent
exercise as signaling an erosion of its overwhelming advantage.

-----------------------------------
someone else had the idea whose thread I argue above:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/745557.cms

Aging IAF shoots down USAF top guns
CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ FRIDAY, JUNE 18, 2004 11:44:04 PM ]
WASHINGTON: Did the Indian Air Force really outperform American pilots and
planes during recent India-US air combat exercises or is the USAF using
the encounter to pitch for new generation fighter jets?

-----------------------------------
the root of my theory in a discussion forum at:
http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/7-805.asp

[1] usah versus the iaf: ex cope india 4/22/2004 6:32:03 AM
the recently concluded Ex Cope India 2004 at Gwalior , India saw 6 USAF
f15Cs taking on the IAF SU30Ks, M2000H, BISON(M21) and M29s. It was a
great excercise.........but the USAF played smart here by playing dumb at
times to give the IAF an edge at times and thus making them expose their
tactics for the kill as well as ESM data about the radars of the BISON
(Kopyo) and Su30k (Noo1)......well hence the press reports stating IAF
overkill can be viewed in this light as well.....good show USAF...and the
IA

[2] RE:usah versus the iaf: ex cope india 6/23/2004 4:00:51 PM
I wish to differ from halberd7's apparently easily impressionable mindset
of a deliberate playdown of tactics by the USAF. He makes it sound like
'The Grapes were sour'. Perhaps it would be pertinent to mention here that
when you are involved in war games you never underplay. For this is the
time you can really simulate exercises to what could be the closest to
real life scenario. And believe you me -- No one no matter how god would
ever like to be shown down. Ask the Pilots of the USAF if they enjoyed
being shot down even if it was deliberate. It is very akin to a sparring
bout where you jab at the opponent promising not to hurt him... but when
you get a cracking punch you lose your control and let loose .. cause baby
no matter what you would like for the other to know who is boss. It might
also be pertinent to note that India and Israel are the only two Air
Forces in the which have such exacting standards laid out for their Pilots
thus churning out the best Pilots in the world. At this point I may also
state that the USAF should not be undermined as they have technological
superiority, even if they are a little sloppy at their tactics (possibly
due to an inherent indoctrination that they are probably invincible..
allowing complacency?)

[3] RE:usah versus the iaf: ex cope india 6/23/2004 5:17:19 PM
I disagree, considering USAF/USN pilots have been deliberately told to
play "dumb" during COMBAT. In Persian Gulf they received orders NOT to
give their tactics away. As a result, you saw surprisingly little ACM and
they relied on the AWACS to give them superior shooting position.

Not saying that that is the case here. I'm just saying it's happened
before in combat.

-----------------------------------
the theory above could be supported by the following paragraph from:
http://www.af.mil/stories/story.asp?storyID=123007048

“The U.S. Air Force has never flown with or against the SU-30 Flanker
before, so that aspect of this … exercise is completely new for us. All
the U.S. aircrew members are excited about the opportunity,” Captain
Snowden said. “In the past, many of these aircraft were considered
‘enemies,’ so it’s very encouraging and positive to fly with them as
partners.”
<aside>
about the SU-30:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/su-30.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/su-30.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/su-30.htm
</aside>

..."partners" my ass!  Nice spin, CPT Snowden.  The truth is in your
opening sentence.  Although we have lots of reports and lots of pretty
pictures about the SU-30, the best intelligence on it's capabilities would
have to come from US pilots flying missions against or with them.  The
India Cope exercise provided just that.  I think I even saw in one of
these links that US pilots were allowed to *fly* them as well.  -- Alan

-----------------------------------
...and the #2 discussion comment above is dispelled by the following
statement by a USAF official at:
http://www.alaskastar.com/stories/022704/mil_20040226019.shtml
(Cope India was not a combat training exercise so much as a
get-to-know-you exercise)

"Cope India 04 will afford each Air Force the opportunity to enhance and
mature operational understanding and set the basis for future
cooperation," said Col. Greg Neubeck, 3rd Operations Group deputy
commander and U.S. Deployed Forces commander. "The exercise is a
tremendous training opportunity. The more we understand each other's
methods, the better we'll be prepared to operate in any future joint
operation. We are already far along in cultivating common bonds and
fostering goodwill between our two Air Forces. The (Indian Air Force) is a
gracious host and their hospitality has been overwhelming."