Internetworkers: http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/

["Christian Stalberg" <cpsr_rtp AT internet-lab.com>]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Sobel" <sobel AT epic.org>
To: "Christian Stalberg" <cpsr_rtp AT internet-lab.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: quick question


>
> Christian -
>
> I'm tied up today and won't be able to talk.  The answer is
> we don't know.  DOJ has not been forthcoming about the way
> the powers are being used, so we are left with the text of
> the PATRIOT Act.  Yes, libraries can be considered to be
> both "businesses" for purposes of access to "business records,"
> and ISPs for purposes of electronic surveillance orders
> under FISA.  That is why we need to know whether libraries
> and similar entities are actually the subject of these
> investigative techniques.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> - D.
>
> >David,
> >
> >I am giving a talk tonight about electronic records privacy and the
freedom
> >to read. Based on the proposed legislation I am seeing that suggests
> >exempting libraries, the USA PATRIOT Act includes or considers libraries
to
> >be internet service providers, no? Do we have any ideas as to the use of
> >Carnivore or comparable for surveillance of library records and/or
> >interlibrary loan transactions? does the surveillance extend into the
> >private sector book, video and music sellers (e.g. amazon and
> >barnesandnoble) and do the gag orders extend to them as well?
> >
> >are you available for a phone call at all today? sorry for the last
minute
> >questions.
> >
> >Hope you're doing well. Would love to get together again sometime in the
not
> >too distant future.
> >
> >- Christian
>
>
> -- 
> .......................................................................
> David L. Sobel, General Counsel             *     +1 202 483 1140 x.105
> Electronic Privacy Information Center       *     +1 202 483 1248 (fax)
> 1718 Connecticut Ave., N.W. Suite 200       *     sobel AT epic.org
> Washington, DC 20009   USA                  *     http://www.epic.org
> .
>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Czeiszperger" <michael AT czeiszperger.org>
To: "Internetworkers: http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/";
<internetworkers AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: [internetworkers] Re: Raleigh City Council USA PATRIOT
ActResolution Update


>
> On Mar 9, 2004, at 8:17 PM, James Dasher wrote:
>
> > Library records?  Though the power to search them is there, I am not
> > aware of a single instance in which the power has been used.
> > Similarly with other provisions that heralded the demise of the
> > republic (though the roving wiretaps and other things have, I
> > understand, been used).
>
> So anything goes just as long as the powers have never used it to date?
>   The main problem to my mind is not that law enforcement can do
> searches, its that they don't need a warrant or probable cause.
>
> http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12126&c=207
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> michael at czeiszperger dot org
> Chapel Hill, NC
>
> ---
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