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Regarding the possibility of civil unrest/civil war, there is much talk about 
this country needing just that to happen.  Govt is violating personal rights 
and the constitution....u get the picture.  Scary stuff!

Rene in Montana
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 06:50:54 
To: <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Cops are Afraid


<<<From: Lynn Wigglesworth lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com

<<<It's not clear what his "fear" is.>>>


To me it seems crystal clear that he is expressing a widening fear among 
police officers that widespread civil unrest is around the corner, and that 
mobs will attack the police.  He is observing that cops are arming themselves 
and putting in layers of protection around their own homes to protect their 
families.

Read again some of the text. (Emphasis added with my interpretation in 
parenthesis.)

"All of them (or I should say "US") have been discussing and have been 
acquiring guns
to provide a LAYERED PERIMETER DEFENSE."  

(This was written by a cop to cops.  He's talking about cops strategically 
placing weapons around their homes in defense against mobs, and spreading the 
word for cops to take precautions for their families.)



"...a volunteer citizen defense force (whatever that is, what happened to the 
National 
Guard?) ..."  

(He's expressing grave concerns about the creation of a private army of 
civilians. It is reminiscent of Hitler's Youth Brigade.)
 
 
 
"The possibility of an ARMED REVOLUTION against the U.S. government is 
being discussed, albeit very gingerly ..."  
 
(I know I've sure heard talk about revolution simmering under the surface for 
a number of years in growing resentment under Bush2.  More recently, it was 
Ron Paul's campain motto, more visibly and audibly expressing concerns voiced 
quietly in people's homes.  My ex- was a cop for a long time, and I 
definitely remember the times he worked riots.  His best friends are retired 
common sense type cops.  I definitely recall them discussing on a number of 
occassions over a few beers that they felt revolution or civil war would be 
in our future.)



"These purchasers weren't spending this kind of money just to turn in the 
guns for no compensation when a government tells them to. I foresee much 
civil disobedience coming down the road."  

(At the flea market, I've heard similar talk - that people in this area are 
not turning in their weapons, and that the cops in this area aren't going to 
make the people turn them in either.)



"I have other friends that are issued ARs or SUBGUNS for tactical team use, 
who always have their gear with them and are planning on just COMMANDEERING 
THESE WEAPONS FOR PERSONAL USE IN DEFENDING HEARTH AND HOME."

(Again, he is spreading the word in the shortage of guns and ammo situation, 
on a source of weapons and ammo that cops can use to protect their families 
and homes from mobs.)
 


The other political type list of things cited - in part, I believe he is 
citing what they are hearing on the streets, the concerns expressed by 
people, on what is sparking the civil war - revolution type talk.


I read this as this is a guy expressing true concern about being in the line 
of fire.
One, they will be in the thick of riots and be targets of angry mobs, they 
will be front line targets of angry private citizens.  Two, if they don't 
stay on the front line, they become targets of the volunteer civilian defense 
force.  Cops are in a Catch 22 if this type of situation unfolds.

--------
"It's when they fail to save what little is left that the flames will begin 
in earnest." ~ Ray Zentz 





________________________________
..that there aren't enough assault rifles 
on the street? Not political?? Yeah, right. This isn't even very 
well-written fear mongering.

Lynn Wigglesworth
Tioga Co. PA
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Leslie" <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
To: <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:54 AM
Subject: [Homestead] Cops are Afraid


Just received this from a neighborhood police officer down the 
road.......................

Bev, you wanted something for discussion, this one should get your 
attention.

This is the mindset that is changing in the US, something our government is 
ignoring or minimizing.

Had a talk with a street preacher yesterday, which I'll save for another 
post.




Written By; Scott Wagner is a Police Academy Commander and Professor at 
Columbus State Community College in Columbus Ohio, and Commander of the 727 
Counter Terror Training Unit. A 29 year law enforcement veteran, and current 
Deputy Sheriff, he is the Precision Marksman for the Union County Sheriff's 
Office SRT Team.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: This is not intended to be political; rather the observations of 
a veteran police officer, and are forwarded for information only to this 
group of current and former law enforcement professionals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note From a Cop

The fear on the street is palpable.

Ever since the election of Barack Obama as President of these United States 
in November 2008, coupled with the election of a democrat party majority in 
both the U.S. House and Senate, concern for the United States and personal 
safety has ignited like a fire in dry grass.

Sales of guns - black guns, rifles, shotguns and handguns (particularly 9mm) 
everywhere, have gone through the roof. AR15s have literally flown off of 
dealer shelves, and only now in the spring of 2009, have I seen the display 
samples of ARs begin to reappear on the wall of my favorite shooting 
emporium after the initial post election rush.

Manufacturers of ARs are still working to catch up and some of the major 
suppliers are as much as 150,000 guns behind. Not only that, ammo is in the 
shortest supply I have ever seen in the 43 years of my shooting life. Have 
you recently tried to get 5.56mm, 9mm or even .380 ammo?

Supplies of 5.56mm and 9mm ammo are in short supply due to the black gun 
buying craze; .380ACP because of the rise in people getting concealed carry 
permits and the resurgence of interest in convenient 380 handguns like the 
fine Ruger LCP. In fact, in doing a review of the Ruger LCP, my gun store 
only had a small supply of ONE .380 round on hand, the Winchesters 95-grain 
SXT, which they had just gotten in. Unfortunately, I had to do a 
30-roundreview of that pistol. There was none other to be found.

The 5.56mm was the first caliber to noticeably be in short supply. This was 
first due to the war effort, the headlong adoption of 5.56mm rifles by law 
enforcement agencies ever since the great LAPD bank robbery and shootout, 
the general shooting public interest in and acceptance of the AR15 weapons 
system along with a realization that yes, the AR does have sporting purpose, 
and of course now, this new fear that
is on the street. Sales of ARs alsowent up following 9/11.

What is odd about this new fear is that it is not coming from the average 
citizen gun owner out there, but it is coming from what to me is an almost 
shocking source: street cops.

Street cops and SWAT cops that I know from various agencies - rural, 
suburban and metro - in my area are scared. Cops that before November 2008 
never gave much thought (that I knew of anyway) to politics or more 
importantly to gun rights. For the most part, these are the guys that didn't 
generally have any interest in shooting or gun ownership beyond keeping 
track of where their duty gun is, and a few of them didn't
even do that so well.

The guys I am talking about now are some of the same guys who used to not 
even carry off duty on a regular basis- but not anymore. They don't scare 
easily, defenders of the Constitution of this State and the United States 
(as our oath of office reads), have been buying ARs, survival gear, and all 
the ammo they can lay their hands on. All of them (or I should say "us") 
have been discussing and have been acquiring guns
to provide a layered perimeter defense.

We want something in .308 (or in my case a superb M1 Garand in .30-06) for 
covering the outer perimeters, 5.56mm weapons for mid-range use (for some 
with more limited funds, the AK-47 and 7.62×39 cartridge will suffice), and 
for the close up stuff shotguns and handguns (love my Benelli M4 Tactical 
and Beretta 92 9mm).

What are we suddenly so afraid of? Well in our discussions it seems to boil 
down to four areas.

First, fear of federal government intrusion into our lives. Every time Ilook 
at or listen to the news, there is something new and intrusive coming out of 
the Obama administration and this Congress.

New tax schemes, government-run Canadian-style healthcare, a volunteer 
citizen defense force (whatever that is, what happened to the National 
Guard?) equipped with funding similar to our military, forced voluntary 
"service" after retirement, a lack of a southern border with hordes of 
illegal and criminal aliens pouring over our border, the swine flu scare as 
well as government forced closing of thousands of privately
held Chrysler and GM dealerships, which will be the final nail in the coffin 
for these companies and the list goes on and on.

But these items in the news are just the tip of the iceberg. We can't see 
the full impact of these actions yet, but we don't know what was added into 
the thousand of pages of stimulus package bills in the dead of night yet. I 
predict however that when the plans contained in the stimulus packages go 
into effect, a lot of us are going to be surprised if not shocked by what 
has suddenly and sweepingly changed.

What also scares us is the second, well-founded fear that there is an 
assault weapons ban looming, one that would make the Clinton Ban appear like 
a look of disdain in comparison. I remember well the 1990s and the Clinton 
years: the rise of militia groups, the "black helicopter" rumors and 
paranoia, all of which was motivated by the Brady Law and the Assault 
Weapon's ban. What if a new ban comes requiring registration or
confiscation and turn-in of banned weapons as what happened in Australia?

I watched cops and citizens alike purchase these guns at $900 dollars and 
more, with custom or tricked out guns easily running into the $2,000 range. 
Then add on all the accessories, red dots, lights, slings and anything else 
you can name and you may have up to $3,000 wrapped up in your rig. I saw the 
looks in their eyes.

These purchasers weren't spending this kind of money just to turn in the 
guns for no compensation when a government tells them to. I foresee much 
civil disobedience coming down the road.

Americans are citizens, and not subjects like the British, Canadians or 
Australians. They just don't always obey the law blindly and not one officer 
or citizen that I spoke to said anything like "I hope I get to keep this gun 
for awhile before they are banned; They are fun to shoot, so I would hate to 
give it up." It isn't going to happen, so the cop on the street and the 
soldier on the base needs to think now what he will do if the orders come 
down. I think you all get what I am saying here.

Which leads me to the third fear, that there is a revolution coming, yes, a 
revolution on the scale of the original American Revolution. You can hear 
this topic discussed on many of the talk radio shows by even the big name 
hosts. The possibility of an armed revolution against the U.S. government is 
being discussed, albeit very gingerly and fleetingly and as something to be 
avoided, which it is. I never heard this mentioned in the 90s.

One of my quietest, low profile officer friends brought it up the other day. 
He said that at some point in the near future, he felt there is going to be 
an armed revolt if things keep going the way they are.

Something has got to give. I was shocked. Yes, I had heard this from some of 
my more radical cop friends in the past, but to hear it from a guy like this 
was unprecedented.

Now, these guys are not saying this will happen to foment volition, preach 
sedition or to even participate. They just want to be ready if it happens, 
to at least defend their families, because number four on the fear list is 
general societal chaos.

Cops fear for their parents, wives, children or grandchildren more now than 
ever before. Most cops are encouraging their spouses and loved ones to get 
concealed carry permits. Not only that, but some of these same cops are 
buying gun mounts for their personal cars so they can carry an AR in the 
family ride at the ready all the time. They are also strapping on 
heavierforms of off-duty hardware.

I have other friends that are issued ARs or subguns for tactical team use, 
who always have their gear with them and are planning on just commandeering 
these weapons for personal use in defending hearth and home.

Final Notes

This is pretty heady and maybe even dangerous stuff. Know fully that I am 
not advocating anything here. I am reflecting to you what I see and hear 
going on around me, and maybe saying things that haven't been said in the 
open, until now. It is something to think about.

Written By; Scott Wagner is a Police Academy Commander and Professor at 
Columbus State Community College in Columbus Ohio, and Commander of the 727 
Counter Terror Training Unit. A 29 year law enforcement veteran, andcurrent 
Deputy Sheriff, he is the Precision Marksman for the Union County Sheriff's 
Office SRT Team.


      
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