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[Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>]

>From time to time when I talk to people I sense that they are mixing up 
>greed with envy.
 
It seems that regardless of individual economic wealth, most people are never 
satisfied with what they have.  They always seem to want at least one more 
thing that a higher wage earner has.
 
The person that makes $5/hour envies the things that can be purchased by the 
$10/hour wage earner, and so on.  Up to the point that what is envy and 
desire is turned into a perception that the next higher up wage earners are 
viewed simply as greedy.
 
I'm not saying this is what you are suggesting,,,, this is just what I run 
across in conversations with people from time to time.
 
I understand the question here is at what point does an individual cross over 
from just spending his earnings on things that he can afford (regardless what 
level that is) on thing he wants - to the point of turning into greed.  
 
My first thought is that greed occurs when an individual goes out of their 
way to actually cheat another person.  
 
I.E. a former employer, I would consider greedy.  
 
I did not envy his ability to organize people to earn money thru actual 
efforts exceptional efforts.  I did not envy the quantity of money he made, 
or what he spent his money on, regardless that I would not have spent the 
money the same way.  
 
However, I considered him greedy because he went out of his way to cheat 
employees out of their overtime, cheated them by paying less than minimum 
wage, and even used employment lawyers and a well paid VP (who cheated the 
owner and rarely worked) to achieve cheating employees so he could spend 
carelessly and lavishly.  He also cheated investors and sponsors out of money 
by spending the money, and not following thru on commitments, so that he 
could continue "vacationing" and "spending" all the time.  
 
Spending as in redecorating the entire house annually, and removing all trees 
and plants and replanting fully grown trees and plants every year... Ok fine, 
I wouldn't do that, but he only could do this thru cheating his employees.  
Had he not cheated employees out of fair and legal wages, well spending like 
that crazy as it is to me, kept other people employed, especially all the 
yard people who charged him ridiculous amounts of money because the boss was 
such an obnoxious jerk to them.
 
I'm not so sure that "excessive possesion" in and of itself defines greed, as 
long as the acquisition of wealth is done without "cheating" (think broad 
definition there).  Most people want a little something more, and the 
wealthier aquiring "things" trickle down.
 
 
A better example of greed of course involved the mortgage loans made to 
people who they had to have known couldn't pay back the mortgages/loans, and 
then passing the old maid and responsibility to others in the form of CDOs, 
etc.  I.E. they cheated in order to acquire wealth.
 
 
 
 

 

<<<<I've been mulling this subject of greed. While the definition varies  
depending on the observer, it is pretty much common to qualify greed  
as excessive possession or use of some valuable commodity, from gold  
to water and all between, that shorts other people. Sort of a fair use  
policy.>>>>





>From Clansgian AT wmconnect.com  Sun Dec  7 16:21:02 2008
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> >Hourly wages. Check out Ithaca Hours. Participants place the value.
> Very much like barter

>From my reading these local systems seem to have univerally worked .... as
long as they are not interfered with by the larger banking system and its 
goons.
 All these systems remove the pirmary limitation of strict barter, that is,
the transaction need not be direct.  If you have a keg of nails and I have a
ham and you want the ham but I don't need the nails, the system somewhat 
breaks
down.

Systems have also worked when there is some universally wanted, needed, used
item that although you personally don't need it, somebody somewhere someday
will.  The oldest documented version of this was the ancient Greeks' use of
'obols', iron skewers for roasting meat.  Everyone used them, they eventually 
wore
out, and they could be easily transported and stored indefinately.  Their
earliest issue of bronze coins were called 'obols' after the practice.

Whiskey, rum, tobacco, lead, bronze, arrowheads, molasses, and a host of
other things have at one time been used as a universal medium of exchange.

Keep in mind that the monetary value of gold is fiat just as is paper money.
A jug of rum retains its value, its natural use, no matter what anyone else
thinks.  But if no one is willing to trade in gold, you have a shinny yellow
fishing sinker or rifle ball.

James